#18 Your Identity, Hidden in Christ

(419) Your Identity, Hidden in Christ - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI5Q8wt0Am0

Transcript: (00:15) [Music] welcome to this week's crowd church service we are a digital Church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps us live a more meaningful life we are a community a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow I want to invite you to connect with us here at crowd church and there are a few ways that you can do just that firstly you can engage with crowd from any device during our live stream and if you're up for it why not invite a few friends over and experience the service (00:57) together you see church is all about connecting with God God and connecting with others and one of the easiest ways for you to do that is to also Join one of our midweek groups where we meet online together to catch up and discover more about the amazingness of Christ you can also subscribe to our podcast called what's the story where we Deep dive into stories of faith and courage from everyday people more information about all all of these things that I've mentioned can be found on our website at www.c crow. (01:36) church or you can reach us uh on social media at crowd church if you're new to crowd or new to the Christian faith and would like to know what your next steps to take are well why not head over to our website crowd. churchnext for more [Music] details and now the moment you've been waiting for is here our online church service starts right now good evening everyone welcome to crowd church tonight so great to see you all out there um so tonight uh I'm joined by Sharon so I'm Anna and I'm joined by Sharon we were just saying hi everyone yeah we were just saying weren't we Sharon that it's not very (02:27) often that we have two women uh hosting I'm not sure if we've done it before or not but anyway it's an all all female um lineup tonight yeah we've definitely not hosted together we've always been with different pairings so yeah quite of quite often a Dan Matt but they're both busy tonight so yeah so anyway good to see everyone um so Sharon tell us um what have we got coming up on crowd tonight so we've got Pete farington talking to us so we're in a series about wholeness and biblical wholeness and last week Matt started a kind of series (03:02) within the series talking about um our identity in Christ and so Pete's carrying on that this week and I listened to it earlier and I loved it I have to say I've written so many notes as usual but yeah it's great that sounds good that sounds good I haven't listened to it yet I've actually just come straight off the motorway pretty much um being at a wedding at the other end of the country down in Wales South Wales today so yeah I haven't had a chance to watch this one yet so I'm really excited about it cuz Sharon says It's amazing so yeah I think we we should probably just (03:35) roll it without too much of a further Ado really let's get on with it a Christian's true identity is not what the world sees but what is hidden with Christ in God now I think it's necessary to say right at the outset the world is diametrically opposed to what I just said regarding identity so it's not what the world sees it is hidden and it's hidden in another in Christ this sounds like total Madness in our age of expressive individualism have you ever thought you know I just have no idea who I am this is not just a a hormone fueled question (04:22) in adolescence it hauns all of us we are fraud with insecurity and there are a few things that we talk about today more than ident entities it permeates public discourse and social media is replete with terms such as you know Finding Your authentic self and in talking about identity today I think it's necessary to make it really clear what I'm not talking about so today we talk about selfhood almost entirely in psychological terms so identity is kind of the projection of the subjective feelings that you have about yourself and being able to project and display that to the (05:02) world that's where your identity is found and and you know if I'm not able to express my authentic self and if it's not seen and accepted and validated and praised by others then my very humanity is being denied you're erasing my Humanity that's the kind of language that's being used today this is how much is at stake in talking about identity there is total societal Panic about this but up until until yesterday the idea of self was found more in things like one's responsibilities and obligations to the community and one's relationship with (05:41) others so I am his son I'm her husband I'm their father and your role was kind of decided for you and you found purpose and identity in playing the role so your identity was constructed in relationships to and and in negotiation with others but as things like the nuclear family and National and cultural identities and having external obligations uh placed on us have largely dissipated and and are increasingly losing their value we've had to start looking elsewhere for a source of identity so we've turned Inward and uh in his book The Rise and (06:24) Triumph of the modern self Carl Truman kind of tracks the cultural developments that have um led us to our current modern understanding of selfhood and he says this the modern self is a self that defines its own identity and worth apart from any external Source or authority so it's this expressive individualism uh that that that must Define you I'm saying all this because I think in order to unpack this topic we have to see the world that we live in so if you feel uncomfortable about the idea of finding your identity in another it (07:04) might be in part because you live in a world which increasingly values and obsesses over individuality and almost sees as inherently repressive and oppressive the idea of anything but the self defining the self but the thing is as much as we might dislike the idea of finding our identity in another or being hidden in Christ the truth is that we all hide ourselves somewhere we all place this hope of self-actualization in something or in or in some aspect of ourselves so like my sense of selfhood will be safe here I can I can hide it here Carl Truman also defines the modern (07:51) self as being in constant flux constantly Reinventing itself in pursuit of self-actualization and I think we're sometimes a little bit like actors who shoot to fame at the beginning of their careers but after that first Blockbuster hit they then spend the next few decades trying to remain relevant so after what initially gave them a basis for for identity uh as a as an actor as that Fades from View and people forget about it they're left scrambling trying to piece together an identity for themselves trying to recreate themselves I think we're a bit like that sometimes (08:30) so we we we have to keep recreating our recreating ourselves and asking who who am I now it's like Elijah Wood he'll he'll only ever be Frodo you know he's probably he's probably been in like a dozen 20 I don't know 20 films since the Lord of the Rings and that was like two decades ago but he'll only ever be fro John Bloom the author John Bloom says who do you believe has the greatest power to determine who you are and what you are worth that is your god like I said we all hide ourselves somewhere so it might be a career or (09:10) achievement or or a lack thereof it might be your reputation or maybe a particular skill or ability that you have that's the thing where you hide your yourself your identity for myself some of my earliest memories are of drawing and coloring and making things with plastic and and painting I've only ever really wanted to be some kind of artist or a painter really and uh I dressed accordingly um although my my wife has since overhauled completely overhauled my wardrobe but question is what happens in Seasons where there is no opportunity to exercise my gift or what would happen if (09:57) due to some tragic event I lost the ability to paint to hold a paint brush or to see who would I be at the end of the day am I just mustache is it is it just style and for many years I was consumed with this anxiety around self-worth or self-esteem and my H hyperfocus and preoccupation with self-esteem was only leading me further and further into despair the endless self-reflection and introspection that was only making me hopelessly depressed impressed I had this idea in my mind that if I just did enough peeling back of the layers of my experience and if I just did enough digging I would eventually find a (10:40) treasure inside myself upon which I could assert my own identity and sometimes this journey looked quite Christian from the outside I thought if I can just repeat this verse enough times over myself I can convince myself that I'm amazing and I can build my identity of that um this is the extent to which we'll go in our pride to Define ourselves John Bloom calls insecurity and mercy even though it doesn't feel like it he says God designed insecurity to be examined in order that we might Escape danger that's why it is a mercy and this kind of insecurity is a God (11:23) gaug in our soul so in a very real sense I was my own God I thought that I I had the power in myself to determine who I was and what I was worth and in a funny way my low self-esteem not a funny way but it actually pointed to truth in Romans 7:18 it says I know that nothing good dwells in me that is in my flesh in my Fallen sinful State um and I think we instinctively know that to be true and all of the panic and the endless introspection and the obsession with identity is is a desperate attempt to comfort ourselves and ignore that (12:08) truth and this is why it's it's futile to to mine our hearts in search of some gold that we can pin our identity on but it was when I took my eyes off myself that I found myself it was when I was worth nothing that God gave everything for me and my worth and my ident identity is defined by the love of another not by selflove and not by an ability to be kind to myself but by the kindness of God he died for me when I was dust so what does it mean to be hidden in Christ well it says in Colossians 3: 1-4 if then you have been raised with Christ seek the things that are above (12:57) where Christ is seek it at the right hand of God set your minds on things that are above not on things that are on Earth for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God when Christ who is your life appears then you also will appear with him in glory for you have died and your identity as a Christian it's it's unseen and it's secure it's secure your identity is where Christ is and one day when Christ who is your life appears you will also appear with him in glory and there's similar language about us dying (13:44) in in Galatians it says I have been crucified with Christ it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me and the more that I have lost myself in all that is contained in those words the more that the identity panic in my heart has quietened and if you are a Christian your identity is inextricably bound to and it's hidden in another and in another so good that he loved you and gave himself for you he died for you and (14:30) I think in in planning this talk and trying to put it together I've found it quite difficult because it is uh it's it's it's almost impossible to put into words just what a paradigm shift this is and what an impact this has had on my heart when the when the world says prioritize that journey into yourself Bible says prioritize that journey into Christ lose yourself in him don't don't fix your mind on things on earth fix your mind on things above where your identity is found in Christ and obviously I am me I'm Peter I'm not you and I'm distinct from you (15:18) and I have my own life experiences and upbringing and physical makeup um personality preferences interests hopes different my own ethn it and all of that but if any of those things become the primary way that I see myself that I am then I would be giving myself over to a lifetime of anxiety and panic and I want to be as explicit as I can if your identity is found anywhere but in Christ any fulfillment that you find will be temporary it could collapse at any moment it might last 60 years but it will be temporary any attempt to to create a definition of yourself outside of Christ (16:07) is doomed to fail and will not last a created thing just cannot Define itself only its creator can do that and uh I I mentioned earlier about you know I posed the question what if what if for me I somehow I I somehow lost the ability to to paint or to see and I was and and and that uh you know an identity built on being a painter being an artist were to just crumble in a moment well I think that a message about identity must have something to offer a Christian in the early church who's about to be uh who's about to be brutally killed (16:50) in in the Coliseum someone stripped of every Earthly identity marker or or uh without the luxury of self-expression or considering what kind of career they can build for themselves or choosing contexts that will best utilize their strengths and we have brothers and sisters all around the world who are being persecuted for their faith today who don't have the luxury of thinking about all these things and I'm just not interested in a Christianity that has nothing to offer them or a Christianity that's dependent on Modern luxuries in order to offer hope and I I (17:28) really do believe that uh Western luxuries really are are veiling from our view just how fragile our modern idea of the self is it was when I took my eyes off myself that I found myself and this is something that um is kind of one of the great paradoxes that characterizes the Christian Life let me explain in John 12 verse 25 Jesus said whoever loves his life loses it and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life now you don't want to lose your life do you so you should love it in such a way that (18:19) you will keep it for eternal life you should you should hate your life now in order to make sure that you don't lose it in order to make sure that you keep it forever and in doing so you'd be loving your life Jesus is saying deny yourself of things today so that you can maximize your joy in me forever and I think this is something that that I've seen in identity once I took my eyes off myself I found myself once I lost myself I found myself in Christ and if your essential self is is based on personal experience or or group identity that's a big one today or your (19:10) career or sexuality or um your your appearance your identity is only ever one mistake or one disaster away from completely crumbling and falling apart and I mentioned earlier about the more traditional understanding of identity and I want to say even that isn't good enough even building your identity um uh even having it primarily built on relationships Earthly relationships or in national identity even that's not that's not good enough either if it's not found in Christ it will not last um and another aspect of of identity being hidden in Christ is that (19:56) the world may not see it may not get it it you might feel maligned and misunderstood and and on on the edge of things it says in 1 John three the reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him you might not feel understood you might not feel seen but your identity is it's unseen it's hidden in Christ it's unseen for now but it is also secure no fire can burn it up no no disaster can rob you of it no mistake can make you lose it and it also makes you secure in 1 John 2:28 it says and now little children abide in him so (20:43) that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming and there is a way that you can have confidence and not shrink in fear or insecurity before God one of 4 verse1 17 says by this is love perfected with us so that we have so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment because as he is as Jesus is so also are we in this world that is phenomenal when Jesus walked this Earth he walked this Earth with not even a hint of displeasure from father God he had the smile and the pleasure of God over his life and so are we in (21:38) Christ now you you might um be listening to this and feel like okay but it just it it doesn't inspire me and and uh I still don't I still don't know what I feel about you know I'm afraid of losing my individuality and and um and and this idea of me just being dust I just just doesn't do much for way well I did say earlier that that that Christ died for me when I was dust and the Christian is simultaneously dust and diamond and it says in Romans 8: 19 for the creation Waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God all creation is waiting eagerly for the children of God to be (22:22) revealed says in in 1 John 3: 1 through3 see what kind of love the father father has given to us that we should be called children of God and so we are there's your identity defined if you're a Christian the reason goes on to say the reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him beloved we are God's children now and what we will be has not yet appeared but we know that when he appears we shall be like him because we shall see him as he is CS Lewis talks in um the weight of uh sermon called the weight of Glory I (23:05) probably quoted it before it's amazing but he talks about the wealth of imagery that scripture uses to describe the promises of Glory for God's children in heaven and I just want to end with this this stunning quote and I hope that this inspires you uh if you're feeling like uh you know I uh my my my body is failing me I've got all these health problems I don't I I I don't feel like I I am Diamond at the same time as being dust uh or I I have this struggle with sin that I just can't beat and I'm a failure well listen to (23:44) this CS Le says it is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses to remember that the dullest most uninteresting person that you talk that you can talk to May one day be a creature which if you saw it now you would be strongly tempted to worship or else a horror and a corruption such as you now meet if at all only in a nightmare all day long we are in some degree helping each other to one or the other of these destinations it is in the light of these overwhelming possibilities it is with the awe and the circumspection proper to them that we should conduct all of our (24:23) dealings with one another all friendships all loves all play all politics There Are No Ordinary People you have never talked to a mere mortal Nations cultures Arts civilizations these are mortal and their life is to ours as the life of a gnat but it is Immortals whom we joke with work with marry snub and exploit Immortal Horrors or Everlasting splendors and one day the children of God will be revealed Everlasting splendors and we will we will dwell with God in his glory that is where your identity is found welcome back I was nearly busy in (25:08) a conversation doing El there I was caught live on it never mind we're super slick here at crowd aren't we so amazing talk though um really amazing I I just felt like there was so much in that and we were just discussing it off camera then um yeah Pete just packs a lot into a short talk doesn't he and what did you think Sharon how did how did you find that talk what resonated for you oh there's so much seriously I think I love the way that he's picked up on the culture that we have um especially here in this country at the minute and he's (25:41) also got um a Biblical perspective on that and how the the two like different worldviews have got very different outlooks on life but also I think drawing in that personal experience so I think just that combination is just very rich so seriously I've got so much to pick up on that what about you yeah I mean I I loved the way that he kind of talked from his own experience and sort of talked about how when he focused too much on his own identity and his sense of self it actually took him deep into depression and like poor mental health (26:19) and I just feel like I work in the Health Service and poor mental health is everywhere right now like depression amongst young people is like Sky High and I just feel like there's something really in that that that you know that when we look deeper and deeper inside of ourselves for all the answers and try and make ourselves are in God like like he was saying that doesn't lead us into life and I just I just really feel like I see that all the time and it just really resonated with me that yeah it leads me (26:49) to ask have you what's your own personal experience with this what's your journey with the whole identity thing and identity in Christ yeah I mean I my test me isn't really like Pete was so it's not something I've personally dealt with in that respect I've always been a Christian and I had quite a strong identity in God I guess growing up but I would say there's seasons of life where perhaps I'm more tempted to I draw too much my identity and what I do like I'm quite a driven person by Nature so you know when I was younger maybe too much of my identity I put into my career or what I was doing and then (27:26) then I became a new mom and because I think because that role is just so overwhelming and all- encompassing when you've got a new baby for the first time and all my friends were doing it at the same time it was like oh my whole identity almost became being a m and although those things aren't wrong they're like great blessings from God children you know career whatever yeah I I can see seasons in my life where there's a temptation to look to those things I'm doing for too much of my identity and that God can easily (27:56) get pushed out out the side a little bit um yeah so that really resonated with me what about you Sharon have you got examples oh definitely um because although I did grow up in a Christian family somehow I managed to not have that security from my faith and was putting my security in all sorts of different things or just trying to find something to pin it on um and it was yeah when I think I was for a while putting it in different relationship so if there was somebody that liked me romantically it's like oh you know I'm I'm an okay person because somebody likes me or in achievements and that (28:37) kind of thing and it was really when I came to Liverpool um I came to do a gap year with the church here which is like a kind of A discipleship year and I was really trying to get serious about God I was just like go I just really need you to turn my life around because this isn't working and that was one of the major things for me where it felt like God was whipping away all the things that I'd put my security in and I'm left there going ah but what's what is left just you know and you feel like you're just floating in midair with no security and it was then that he started to teach (29:15) me about all these things that we're going to be covering in the next few weeks about who God says we are in Christ um that started to bring like much more Firm Foundation but for a while in the kind of transition stage of this honestly I felt so unsure and I can remember even even after God had started to teach me about who he says I am still feeling a bit shaky on it because it was all a bit new and like going having to go shopping for clothes and just going I don't really know who I am now to buy clothes because (29:50) this was who I was but what does this new me look like in terms of it might sound a bit silly if you've not no I don't think so so I yeah I I think yeah it's funny isn't it when you think you're one thing and you that thing so defines you that then when you strip it back I I can get that it leaves the Gap like well who am I and and I think it's a really good point that you raised that actually it's not just about getting rid of all those identities like you're not what you do you're not kind of defined by your friends by what your social media account says about you how many (30:25) likes you get all all these superficial things that people can find themselves on what kind of music you listen to what kind of fashion you wear kind of job you do how much money you have like all those things we know they aren't really the core thing but you're right that's only stripping those things away and saying that's not def the thing that most defines me it's only half of it it's it's the actually in knowing who God says you are and and who God's made you to be that's the thing that's that's where Freedom comes that's where the wholeness comes and so I'm really (30:55) excited about this sort of whole sort of series we're doing because I think it's just so important in our culture today like I just feel like so many people are bit lost in who am I really yeah um and I think like you said a lot of these things that we put our security in are really temporary so like your job um I mean you may be doing really well in your career but I know people you know who get laid off or I've been laid off twice in my career so not doing anything wrong just you know I just like to ask (31:28) just like you know but companies run out of money don't they they have to lay people off the economy downturns and and things change and maybe your or um even in things like relationships like relationships they break down don't they and yeah yeah and I think although this is something that I know God just did something really deep in me years ago it's come up again because I think over time I've let other things creep in and so I feel like I'm going on a bit of this Journey again is just to think okay whose opinion of me actually matters and (32:04) um I've just been aware that um so where I work um I work with um women from all around the world and I find often they are complimenting me which is very nice about the way I look or the way I dress and all this sort of stuff which is lovely but it it can start to feel a bit like I have to if I don't behave like this then I'm not going to have that approval and I also help out and youth where that is definitely not their opinion of me do you know what I mean so I've got these two completely different (32:36) groups and it's like and and I was in a group um I was at a conference this week where the emphasis there was like all the speakers are very much like these are my qualifications and these are all the degrees that I've got and all these experience which is obviously you need to tell those things it's completely appropriate for the scenario but it really um I don't know if you you get it when you walk into a new group you can kind of feel like what people are using for their validation and it very much felt like those were the validating things in that group if you can tell all (33:12) these qualifications so it's like if um our our security can't be in those things because whoever we're with it's going to be a different set of rules and you become unstable I'm not sure whether I'm explaining this too well um but whereas if our validation is in who God says we are that is solid do you know I mean really solid and it doesn't matter whether people approve of that or not it's nice if they do don't get me wrong much prefer them to um you know agree with that yeah but it's such a solid foundation yeah absolutely and I think I mean in a way because of the way (33:53) social media is now we have such a like I think it's just such a sort of visual example of what it's like to base your identity and what other people say or whether they approve of like we've always been like this as human beings haven't we like looking for approval from one another but I think you see it's so obviously played out in some social media now don't you where people post St for like validation and likes and so much of our identity can come from things like that I just I think that whole world is just a really good (34:25) example of how it plays out in lots of different social space it's not just online but but yeah it's it's it's um I just think it's such a big area yeah I think that kind of picks up on I think at the beginning um Pete said it sounds like Madness in an an age of expressive individualism and he also said that this might seem oppressive to have our security and in Christ but actually my experience is completely the opposite that it actually brings freedom in that um if you're not having to get those likes you're not having to get the approval it just just leave you free to (35:08) be who God has created you to be it's a big pressure for any young person growing up today where our culture says you know like like like with um at the start of that start of that talk you know Define yourself you choose who you are you are your own God effectively you you know your all of your identity all of your worth all of who you are is self-defined that's a really big pressure at 16 17 18 like I don't feel like even though you know we're not that old but you know a bit older than than than young people today um but I feel like if I was growing up now and becoming an adult that is a huge (35:49) pressure on kids to say to find everything about yourself and and only you can do that yeah like I I don't know I I would feel quite lost in that and I think a lot of people do and I I I think you're right there's a real freedom in saying actually I don't have to do that I don't have to self-define everything and be that autonomous and actually my experience is like I was thinking while Pete was talking actually I was thinking about that verse in in Mark I think it's Mark 12 but you can correct me on this (36:21) if I'm wrong um where like one of the disciples says to Jesus like what's the greatest commandment and and Jesus says love the Lord your God with all your heart and then he says love your neighbor as yourself and I feel like that's where my kind of jaw identity comes from it's like almost like it's like in loving you know in loving God and putting God first and then also that outworking to how I love people around me and how I connect with other people around me and I feel like all of that is God defined and God inspired and I think yeah that's kind of it for me like and (36:57) and I think it's interesting that when you look at going back to the mental health thing when you look at a lot of conversation that around kind of what improves your mental health today it's about connectivity with others it's about you know serving I mean they always talk about God in that context but it's about like doing something community-minded it's about you know kind of yeah serving kind of something bigger than yourself it's about getting involved in a community project like all of these things are like supposed to (37:26) improve your happiness level and your mental health and I think yeah that's kind of exactly what Jesus was teaching hundreds and hundreds of years ago thousands of years ago even um yeah and I just think for me it's that simple it's like that's the truth I always come back to it's like am I you know am I putting God at the center and other people like right underneath that and kind of is that how I'm building my life and is that the identity I'm building around someone who loves God and loves other people and if I go off that and (37:59) it's about something else they've probably gone a bit AWOL but that's my experience as you're speaking I'm just noticing the comments going slightly mad there um so welcome to Hannah and um we've got Matton who's my husband but he's currently in the states Matt crew uh yeah there's been questions about is this live and is it what is online church so basically if you've just joined we've had a talk about um a subject from the Bible and we're just discussing it taking any of your questions so if you've got any questions you can agree disagree with what we're (38:35) saying just Chuck them in the comments and uh yeah we will try to pick up on them which we've not done too well up until this point yeah definitely I actually really loved what Matt said earlier in in the session he picked up on that quote that um Pete mentioned I I'm just scrolling back up a little bit but um I just really love that quote that he pulled out where is it I'm looking for it um um quite a lot of comments here we we're going too fast now here it is it's when I took my eyes off myself that I found myself what a great point I mean that's (39:10) literally what Matt says but it's true sometimes when we take our eyes off ourselves that we actually find what we're really looking for and yeah I just I mean he made that point a few points a few times in the talk and I thought that was just that really resonated for me and I think it's kind of what you've just been saying as your experience as well yeah I've got a slight little slight tangent which is sort of related um so he talked about how our culture now um is very much what so we're um recording in England so the culture here is very much about expressive individualism but then obviously some of (39:50) the cultures that I work with are kind of the opposite which he also describes here where it's much more your identities based on your community and I think sometime I think there are some aspects of each of those things which are Godly not necessarily to do with identity but um which I think the Bible is very good at bringing up both I think when we look at the Bible God is super interested in the individual it talks about how even the hairs of our heads are numbered you can't get much more individual than that and how um he knew (40:28) us before we were or as you know before we were formed and as we were being formed in our mother's womb so you've got that but then also there's so much of the Bible which is addressed to the group the body as in all of us together so is a slight tangent in that it's picking up on stuff you said but not specifically about identity so yeah not sure I was going with that no no it's I think it's a good point um yeah I like that um I was just looking through the comments just see if we got anything else going on Matt cre said he corrected (41:02) us a little bit apparently we're not the first women to co-host apparently you've done it before with ra Marshall so there we are now we all know thanks for setting us on the right path Emma that's good good to know um we've got a few questions here um so Hanah just said I'm confused about when Jesus was born um do you want to pick that one up uh yeah I'm I think there are probably clever people people than me who worked it out um I think in theory like BC is like before Christ is and then ad is after Christ but I think they got the dates wrong when they first sorted it out so it's (41:41) somewhere around beginning of the ad but so about 2,000 years ago give or take is yes not totally sure but there's I'm sure there's cever people who might have worked out closer than that we'll get you a more detailed answer like afterwards but yeah yeah it's around 2,000 years ago yeah um any other points to add oh got search through honestly like Sharon has literally taken like pages and pages and dates that's how good that talk was well and P it helps me to focus if I kind of almost wrote down word for (42:17) word what he said um and yeah it just helps me yeah that's good um yeah I think I like he also talked about how his um Christianity and our identity it it's relevant for anyone wherever they are in the world regardless of whether you have modern luxuries that we might have here and so just as relevant for somebody who's super wealthy or somebody who has nothing somebody who's healthy or someone who's sick wherever you are whether you're being persecuted it's just as relevant it this is like free gift for everybody anywhere (42:57) at any time yeah um Hanan saying well I'm a Muslim is it fine that I can say it's fabulous if you say Hanan yes abolutely very welcome anyone's very welcome here at crowd church and we do love your questions so we'll do our best to answer them can't make any promises and look Matt's just answered our question about Jesus a little bit more accurately than us so around 4 to 6 BC is the best guess apparently so there you go now you know everyone um I think that's a really good point though just going back to what (43:26) you're saying Sharon and so I I think um that whole idea that I mean that whole idea that it's kind of when we liberate ourself um from sort of identity that's so ingrained in Oran culture I mean that that's the thing isn't it like um yeah it's like the fact that Jesus and and like following him or identity being in Christ is kind of it's cross-cultural because it's not about whether you've got much or little or whether you live in this bit of the world or that bit of the world like because it's so much deep it's much (44:04) deeper level than that surface stuff and so there's lots of ways that Christianity can be represented and presented and you know I think in Western culture certainly in the UK we have a certain way of doing church but it's certainly not the only way if you went to Africa or Asia you'd see a very different kind of church but it's the same it's the same identity in Christ and and and and so I love that um and I also you know it kind of reminds me of the little bit that the other point that Pete made about it being like when we (44:36) lose our own identity that's when we find like when you lose your life is when you gain it you know that's that's what Jesus said isn't it and it's that same idea that actually sometimes it's it's easier for people who don't have all those luxuries and sometimes those luxuries that we have in life um in the West can actually be a huge distraction because we tend to gravitate towards them and try and find our identity and worth in them and they can actually be a big distraction from going deeper and asking these spiritual questions and finding our real identity (45:09) yeah um so I thought that was a really interesting point as well there's um I I keep thinking of all these bits that I want to pick up on and they come in they come in through one SED my head and out the other um I think one of the things I'm trying to find that brought up um can't quite remember how we put it but it's like if we are just basing our identity on ourselves it's like there is this pressure to be perfect in a sense all the time and it's like um I think for each of us we do have those things in us which are (45:49) good because we are all made in the image of God and he's created us for that but also the Bible talks about um especially you know before we give our Our Lives to him this sinful nature so for all of us there are these things that we come up ACR in in ourselves that even if they don't break God's law they break the own the laws that we make for ourselves and it's like what do you do with those if you're not basing your life on Christ what do you do with your failures and for all the the darkness inside you when that's there you've (46:25) either got to hide it or or you change the um the measure of what it means to you to validate yourself in a sense whereas I think the the Christian faith it allows us to acknowledge the fabulous things about the way we've been made because God has made us fabulous but it also allows us to acknowledge our sin and our failure knowing we that we've got this father that loves us that we can come to and he gives us that forgiveness he doesn't just cancel us if we get stuff wrong do you know what I mean yeah yeah it's a really good point in this kind of cancel culture we live (47:04) in um yeah yeah that's a really good point so I I mean we could just go on and on and on about this talk could we really I'm aware that time's ticking on um so I guess we'll probably draw the conversation to a close at that point but I just think there's so much more to to talk about um it's wor say as well if you've got more comments feel free to keep chatting in the chat box you know keep posting your questions you can email us through the week from the crowd Church um website as well which is um should be coming up on the screen um so (47:42) yeah do get in touch with us through the week and um ask ask ask for us if you've got more questions if you want to talk further if you want to connect oneto one or if you've got any prayer requests always really happy to pray for people so please do email us if you want to talk or you want us to pray for something or just any questions at all yeah like Anna said we do love questions I especially love questions and um yeah quite happy for discussion and yeah that kind of thing yeah definitely so Sharon (48:13) tell us what we've got happening next week I believe or hopefully reli told that we have my husband Matt speaking next week and we've got Dan and will hosting so all guy team next week yeah yeah exactly the opposite and um it's a continuation on this discussion around identity isn't it so it'll be the next yeah the next in the series on this so if you've enjoyed tonight like and you want to hear a bit more about it then come again same time next week at 6 PM UK time and and we'll be like picking up this discussion again well we won't personally but some of the crowds Church team will be yeah so yeah um so thanks (48:52) for joining us and for all your comments and uh hopefully see you see you in the comments next week yeah thanks for joining us all have a great week everyone we'll speak soon take care thank you so much for joining us here on crowd church now if you are watching on YouTube make sure you hit the Subscribe Button as well as that little tiny bell notification to 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(49:56) church where you can learn more about us as a church more about the Christian and faith and also how to connect into our church Community it has been awesome to connect with you and you are awesome it's just a burden you have to bear and hopefully we'll see you next time that's it from us God bless you bye