Doing Work

(420) Doing Work - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI4plfZupBw

Transcript: (00:01) [Music] welcome to this week's crowd church service we are a digital Church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps us live a more meaningful life we are a community a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow I want to invite you to connect with us here at crowd church and there are a few ways that you can do just that firstly you can engage with Crow from any device during our live stream and if you're up for it why not invite a few friends over and experience the service (00:43) together you see church is all about connecting with God and connecting with others and one of the easiest ways for you to do that is to also Join one of our midweek groups where we meet online together to catch up and discover more about the amazing of Christ you can also subscribe to our podcast called what's the story where we Deep dive into stories of faith and courage from everyday people more information about all of these things that I've mentioned can be found on our website at www.c crow. (01:22) church or you can reach us uh on social media at crowd church if you're new to crowd or new to the Christian faith and would like to know what your next steps to take are well why not head over to our website crowd. Church SL next for more [Music] details and now the moment you've been waiting for is here our online church service starts right now well good evening welcome to crowd Church my name is Matt and it's great to be with you this evening beside me we have Sharon Hi everyone and Ellie hello hello okay it's going to be like (02:13) that good good good already put down the floor hello um sorry that was that just tickled me I don't know I Can't Tell You Why um so a very warm welcome to you uh this is crowd on online church we are carrying on our panel discussions uh last week we kicked off a little a little change to the normal program we are doing the sort of panel discussions and today we're talking about work and what the Bible has to say about work which is um well it's exciting it's fun I'm looking forward to it you looking forward to it absolutely I mean (02:54) it I have no doubt I have no doubt whatsoever and so to do that I thought who better to getting than these two very beautiful and lovely da sat beside me uh and we are going to chat about work so if you have any questions any comments about our conversations uh do write them uh we do see them they do pop up on the screen so uh we'll try and respond to them if we can um but yeah it's it's crowd it's crowd church and if this is your first time with us a very warm welcome to you watching us online if you want to know more about church (03:24) well more about crowd Church rather than just church head over to does it come up on the screen yes it has www.c crow. Church CH or you can find us on social media crowd church we would love to connect with you we would love to hear from you uh sending any prayer requests as well getting a lot of prayer requests coming in so do send those in as well um as have have I have I remembered everything I have no idea let's go with yes you have absolutely why not love that so apparently I've remembered everything which is quite unusual for me um so yeah very warm welcome to you uh Wherever You Are (04:00) watching in the world now normally what we do is we we normally have a talk don't we like a a pre-recorded talk uh but we don't have one as such this week because we're going to do this panel conversation which we did last week and and neither of you saw it no we didn't be catching up with it at some point wow so it was really good um and so last week we did the panel conversation with Dave Connelly there was myself Dave Connelly and Anna Kettle who I still want to call Anna bont which is is not helpful uh so we did the the panel conversation last week about family oh (04:43) Miriam's in the comments hi Miriam how you doing lovely nice to see you well virtually ni to see your name on a screen it's nice to see you uh be with us uh how you all doing that's a good question how are you doing uh I'm mostly doing okay um my sinuses are playing up so breathing is slightly more of a challenge than usual but um apart from that good what about you too what about you yeah I'm all right all right I'm I'm enjoying the the changing weather actually are you yeah which is unusual as in you like the cooler weather yeah I'm quite enjoying that it's you know a different (05:27) season I'm not quite sure how I think about that that is slightly controversial yeah yeah so yeah right yeah yeah is it is it because you don't like the hot weather is or is it no I think because I've just been working all summer which is on topic for what we can talk about today um I feel like I'm not missing out on anything now that it's raining I it is so you don't actually mind working yeah yeah because it's raining outside so it's okay that I'm stuck inside walking yeah although here in the UK I feel like we have had a lot (05:58) of rain all summer yeah here we are british talking about the sum the weather the weather already we have to do it we do we do uh but you know it was a nice day yesterday it was and the day before was yeah yeah Friday was good yeah yeah yeah so we' we've had our two days summer's gone now that's it so you're in your coats and jeans I'm still trying to decide whether it's warm enough to take my jacket off I've been ding the same yeah yeah yeah I'm not sure what to do well there you go what's the weather like where you are it's actually pained down with rain is it at the moment it's (06:31) raining quite heavily so we're just praying that there's no leaks uh which is you know we've had in the past in this place um so yes Miriam says she's doing great which is always nice to hear it's always lovely to hear from you Miriam so work where should we start well I was just wondering how people reacted when you said work whether it's a case of yay work great topic or oh not work or maybe somewhere in between yeah I was I've always found it ironic that in the Bible um you know this is a church we we we we like to talk about (07:08) the Bible don't we we do uh but in the Bible the Book of Job is spelled the same way as job it is yes uh and if you don't know job is a story in the Old Testament it doesn't go well for job for the majority of the book it's it's it's pretty bad it's pretty bleak for him to be fair uh and job is spelled j o like a job and so quite often I think people they read job and go that's my job right there you know I've just got to suffer that's it that's it I've just got to suffer like job um and so yes so um (07:44) you're right I think some people can think of it like uh and some people like yay yeah where are you in that whole Spectrum um I think I'm on the uh the yay and yeah okay great yeah you sure that um I think I I I enjoy what I do and I think um we could probably get into this more from the Bible but I think we're actually created to work um we can get into some scriptures uh work and rest and to have this rhythm going and I think if we don't have that I think there is something missing and I I'm not just talking about paid work because I think we we can work in lots of (08:28) different ways yeah um but it's great that I have something that I actually enjoy doing as well and yeah yeah I can be quite creative in as well what do you do uh so I teach I teach English like you just carry on that's was going to be my next question just in case sorry no no you go for it that is a good question because not everyone's going to know so I work for charity teaching English to non-english speakers but it's a women's charity so it's just women in my class and do some of the support work as well nice um have (09:00) quite a mixture of people from some very educated people some who have had no education in their own country uh all different nationalities different languages different cultures so yeah I just love being in that environment um and I love learning languages myself so yeah it's cool yeah that is cool H do you want to tell people what you do because I think your job's really interesting yes so I um am a freelance uh theater Des designer so I designed set and costumes you design set and costumes or certain costumes set set and costumes costumes so in well in the TV world you (09:40) either do one or the other usually like set or costume but in theater you do both and get paid about half of it welcome to the world of theater right yeah definely and Matt because not everyone's going to know what you do either that's very true so um I apart from doing crowds I have my own company um well we have our own company if in case you don't know this is next to me Sharon and my wife we're married we co-own the company um and we one of us does more work in it than the other though well I'm trying to catch up good yeah see what I did yeah uh so (10:26) yeah I work in the world of e-commerce um and and uh now we also work in the world of podcasting and we also work in the world of Acquisitions which sounds way posher than it's just cool so yeah so in a couple of weeks you know um I have to go do a work trip from the acquisition thing which is cool so yeah I enjoy it you know it's uh We've run the business since Josh was born I think I get lost because Matt's a bit of an entrepreneur so we'll start one thing and then when that's running smoothly he'll get bored so starts something else so it's it's constantly changing so yeah yeah it does (11:11) change TR is tricky yeah it does change quite a bit in fact I I think we started the business before Josh was born because it was a side hustle because I was working my regular job and then I set the business up as a side hustle so I'd work in the evenings and the weekends uh on the business and that that's how it all yeah all got started this 203 well actually when did we get married 98 I think it was about the same I think it was about the same time because that's when I started doing the websites because I remember doing a wedding (11:46) website so yeah since 97 98 almost sat 30 years 25 30 years I don't know it's a while 97 is 27 years cuz I'm 27 I was born in wow yeah okay glad is here for the mass you're welcome yeah evening Matt uh Matt's in the comments as well and actually it's just it's probably worth saying we all have very different work backgrounds um so you're self-employed I run my own company we employ people we have staff you do voluntary work yeah um in the voluntary sector so I think we're all quite different it's also worth saying that people watching this um (12:28) you're going to pick up a few things that I think are quite common um well you're going to pick up things which I think are common across all three of us all three of us work not all of us are paid all of us seem to enjoy what we do right now I appreciate that people watching this or listening to this may not have a job and if you do you may not enjoy what you do and we are going to we I I I do want to be sensitive to that um and we are going to talk around some of these things about what the Bible has to say about work which will hopefully encourage you and Build You Up yeah but (13:00) whatever wherever you are at right now hopefully yes yeah absolutely so um it's it's worth acknowledge in that and actually um if you're not working I don't think that makes you a second class citizen in any way absolutely um I I just I think the Bible has some stuff to say about work now it's worth it's interesting isn't it because there was a period where you weren't working um yeah technically in a traditional job yes yes yes Cu uh for quite a long time I stayed home with our kids which I know is not really the done thing now and even back then actually because I before I had we had our kids I (13:41) was working as an occupational therapist in the hospital so I've I've changed what I do and I really wanted to stay at home with our kids and even back then I was the only one within my department to actually have done that lots of people cuz I get it was mostly women in my department so loads of people have gone off and had kids um but had all gone back to work and I'm not saying which is right or wrong I think you know everyone before God is responsible for what they do but yeah so I I did that for many years and really enjoyed that as well (14:16) yeah on the whole there were definitely moments there were and it's it's probably worth pointing out in that in that phase that you were part-time making more money than I was with my fulltime before we had yeah so actually I it's not a case of um we had a successful business and therefore we could afford for you to do that and that was a decision that we prayed through but it meant giving up the biggest part of our income because you were working parttime doing part-time voluntary work you've done voluntary work the whole yeah just so many different things alongside looking (14:52) after kids and yeah too many to go into I think yeah very good okay well let's get into this so uh let's look at our first uh let's start where it says here in the note you can't see the notes but we got notes Here uh work is ordained by God and so I'm going to put my glasses on so I can read the text on the computer uh Genesis 128 said God bless them he's talking about Adam and Eve so this is preall right this is before um what Christians call Sin this is when life is good in the garden everything is perfect and Rosy literally in the garden literally in the garden yeah yeah yeah (15:30) uh and so Genesis 1 128 and God blessed them talking about Adam and Eve and said to them be fruitful and multiply and fill the Earth and subdue it have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth and so Genesis 2:15 uh says um the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and to keep it in other words before sin before it all went Pete Tong um which just means wrong sorry if you're outside of the UK um I'm really good at explaining Bible words that just not very good at explaining British words and before I (16:16) went very wrong there was work what do you think about that I find this really encouraging actually and because the the first talk of work is actually um before this where it talks about about God creating and it talks about God's creation as work and God looked at what he had made and saw that it was good so there's that whole sense of yeah God work is something that God does and that was very different to other um ancient ways of looking at work uh where there was some where it was just like um work was seen as something that the lowest of the low people do but (16:54) God and people of any status are not people who do work it's very very different to the biblical view of it something that God does and I love the fact that um the the work that we're told God does is very creative and then when we've got Jesus who as Christians we believe is God com In the Flesh he comes later on in the Bible yeah his work is as a carpenter which is also very physical and creative in a sense um and I think this sense that all different types of work are a a good thing they're god-given I quite like (17:31) that very good any thoughts yeah I think it's similarly encouraging isn't it as you were saying that it's kind of before before everything went wrong that this was this was always part of how we're supposed to function we're supposed to function in in relationship with the the world around us like caring for it and um that that is just that's part of how we're made yeah it's a nice thing although things might go a bit skew with later on you you know too much emphasis on on work at times and um but yeah that (17:58) there is a um the original plan is for that to be a good thing and these original jobs were not actually paid it's like I don't think hasman even in the garden doing this work and getting money for it but there were you think they had like a HR no the head of H there was an angel HR Angel yeah yeah but again so it's although now we do what part of work is earning money to live and that kind of thing but that there's more to work than just that yeah yeah and I think that's a really important point I think for me one one of the things that I when I started studying this out (18:38) in scripture years ago when I first started working and not long been a Christian and I thought and you and you start here that work was before the fall that God worked that Adam worked and that Eve worked and they actually they co- labored together um there's definitely no pay gap between Adam and Eve you know what I mean um and so um it made me think and I I've often said this I think and tell me if you if you agree In Heaven There Will Be work yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah which is an odd thing to think about heaven isn't it it's like because what happens is I'm I'm of a certain age now Ellie as we've (19:18) just discovered as we have just discovered I of a certain age where naturally I'll be thinking right in 15 20 years I'm going to think about retiring and we work our whole lives to retire right that's the whole if you think about what happens in the west you start your job you pay to your pension and you retire when you're 65 or 67 or whatever the retirement ages these days um and that's the goal of so many people right is and I'm not saying retirement is a good thing or a bad thing I'm just like society's been conditioned you work really hard and then you chill out and I (19:55) think that thinking is then pervaded thinking about heaven does that make sense that actually it's going to be like retirement but on steroids it's going to be so much better and I I don't think it is although I think there's the the flip side of that as well where some people are kind of like heaven's just going to be really boring because we're just going to be sat in fluffy clouds singing Heavenly songs to God playing on our har yeah and I think the picture of uh heaven in the Bible is so different to all of that kind of stuff yeah no I agree I think that also (20:30) then reflects like a um a misunderstanding of what work is then if if you're seeing it as this you know um I've got to get through the to 65 67 whatever it is and then I won't work again but that's so not true because so many people when they retire they go and volunteer or they look after their grandkids or and those are all things that are working you they do more stuff in the community because or they do loads of gardening and those are all that's all work but again because our understanding so much especially as you say in the west is all about earning money and that that is it's a (21:01) transactional thing of what do I get out of this that that's what that's what work is yeah and I think what we'll probably discover is that biblical understanding of work is a bit different yeah little bit I think as well if we go back to the stuff in Genesis that the whole work thing is about um a partnership with God because it talks about people being made in God's image and the whole thing of being an image Bearer it's like you are um in partnership with the one whose image you bear so like um in the ancient times you'd have the Kings and they would have (21:36) their uh like image bearers the people that carry out their task and it's that whole thing of a partnership with God bringing his kingdom and his ways into the work that we do and again that's something I quite like yeah yeah no very good uh very good if you've just joined us very warm welcome to you uh welcome to crowd church we are me myself Sharon me myself and I Sharon and Ellie um me myself and I we're talking about work I'm not singing I'm not going to do any more of that don't that was it did you just say (22:11) please don't yeah you have many talents but that's not one of them bless is it true or not is it is it true that I can't sing that that's not one of your main talents oh no I think I rock the I rock the radio waves man [Laughter] what we saying oh yeah welcome to crowd Church uh we're talking about work we've got our little panel conversation going on so if you have any questions thoughts on what we're talking about then do drop them in drop them drop them in the comments and we will uh Endeavor to get to those or just let us know where (22:45) you're watching from it' be great to hear from you um so we've started off with this this idea that work is actually Godly that it is a principle ordained by God and it was their preall and of course then uh as the Christian story would dictate the fall happens and sin enters the world and things change where work is concerned uh and it's probably worth just pointing that out right yeah we were talking a little bit about this before we went on air because um I think it can be easy to go yeah God God has created us to work and (23:24) yay that's fabulous but actually the reality of that can be quite difficult yeah quite different in that the Bible also talks about that the world now is broken and people are broken and that brings with it lots of difficulties so um I think in any field of work there's the bits that you might love and then there's the sheer frustration of like having I've worked in the NHS for a while as I said before and there were many F fantastic things about that but seriously frustrating with all the paperwork and the Hoops to jump through and (23:59) um and I think just the sheer volume that where you can't don't feel like you can do a proper job because you've just got to get people out and through and yeah so although work is great or can be great there is also that element of frustration and difficulty and hard yeah just hardness about it yeah yeah do you want to throw anything in here um I don't think I've got got anything particularly to say off the back of that fair enough yeah um so yeah so what happens is sin comes in work becomes hard right that's what uh uh your what the the word bible us the original in my (24:39) head is this word toil that work becomes toil after the fall so we still have to work or work is still part of have to we still get to work is probably a better way to think about it um work is very much still part of God's plan but now it's harder yeah which we've all experienced uh in some way okay so let's move on then to the next principle which I'm going to read it says here in Ecclesiastes uh which is a book written by Solomon himself the wisest man apparently that ever lived until I came along just smiled yes Matt yes that's right yeah yeah yeah so (25:25) uh anyway so Solomon said there is nothing better that's an interesting opening statement there is nothing better for a person than that he should eat and drink and find enjoyment in his toil um this also I saw is from the hand of God for apart from him who can eat or who can have enjoyment and so at the end of that he's kind of like he's bringing God there into work isn't he and it's like actually he's recognized that food comes from God drink comes from God and work comes from God and that we should (26:00) find enjoyment in that which is quite that's quite an impressive thing to say um and especially given the fact we've just said work's not always enjoyable um and actually work can be hard so how do you think we can how do you Ellie balance that tension well I well first of all I really love Ecclesiastes and I really love the kind of the um simplifying of all of this and I think what's interesting here is that he saying there's there's nothing better than that um that's not a everyone has it like this everyone has it they enjoy their toil and do this and that and I think it's something to work towards um and uh (26:41) keep as a goal in mind when you're when you're working and you work out what um does bring enjoyment and what doesn't and what um I guess what parts of it yeah bring you closer to the what was it the uh seeing it's from the hand of God and um recognizing there'll be some parts of work like kind of those the things that are more difficult about it or you know managing the areas where it's slightly more uh interrupted by sin I suppose with um you might be dealing with corruption at work or any any of those kind of things are just so far out of your hands but as the the kind of the (27:15) Simplicity of um your goal being I'm going to I'm going to eat my food I'm going to drink my drinks and I'm going to enjoy my work that's a it's a lovely thing to to work towards even if it's not always consistently like that yeah yeah I like the idea of just enjoying the simple things and Enjoying Everyday Life yeah because I think sometimes um like if you read books of people's lives people you know or I think there's so much on social media now of where it seems like everyone's doing these amazing things and it can most of life (27:51) isn't full of these amazing highs most of it is quite simple it's you know the ordinary in a sense the mundane and I think just to be able to stop and get enjoyment from those things actually is quite a nice thought yeah yeah yeah it is it's um it's interesting isn't it and I I think you're right I think have we over complicated life the pursuit of um stuff yeah has that clouded out the enjoyment of the the the basics of life and I think it's a great question and I I don't know if if it's an actually easy question to (28:33) answer in many ways I think there are seasons that we go through I think there are a lot of gray areas that we find ourself but the Simplicity of this like you say Enjoy your food enjoy and it's worth saying when he says enjoy drink he's not talking about going down the pub and then and coming home sloshed because we know that the Bible has a has as a principle you don't get drunk right so the Bible is not pro going out and getting drunk I just want to be perfectly clear before people start shouting at me um or going down the pub (29:07) I'm in D doing what God's told me to do um I think it's important to understand that um and and conversely I don't think enjoying food means enjoying it you know because the Bible also has a lot to say about gluttony yeah yeah um two things maybe we don't talk about a lot in church these days um but gluttony and drunkenness are not are not good things but there's Al the excess I suppose where work's concerned isn't there so you can have work is work is from God drink is from God and food is from God but I can take all of these things to excess I can take food to excess (29:41) gluttony I can take drink to excess drunkenness and I can take work to excess um so how do you thinking that through how do you um deal with that Ellie terms of work life balance let's let's talk about the work life balance because you've not got any at the moment so let's just go there I'm dropping [Music] AE um yes so this is I mean this is a very timely thing to be talking about um I shared at church this morning about the um kind of the intensity of the year that I've had workwise um so being freelance I think is particularly difficult to establish a work life balance um and I think uh being kind to (30:26) myself as well in that and saying you kind of have to you have to learn it somehow you have to learn what that balance is somehow you're not going to kind of walk straight into um any career kind of with the perfect balance of enjoyment and putting things down and walking away from it um so it is hard I think but the thing that makes or has been making the difference in this last year so I've had um probably the busiest most intense like highest responsibility jobs that I've had so far which is great (30:57) in terms career progression like moving forward and challenging myself and growing and getting better at the things I do um it's been so hard um but the thing that has really helped that is inviting God into it and I think that makes the difference doesn't it when you're um with with all of this it's working out what the relational the god relational impact is on your work and how um you know being um I know going to people in your church for advice on how to get a better work life balance and praying through it and inviting God into kind of (31:34) everyday eventually it is making a difference it's slow it's a slow learning it has been very slow learning this this year um but yeah it's not the it's not the easiest no and I and and that's the whole point isn't it these things aren't always it's not it's not as black and white yeah um and I think sometimes you have got to find God in these gray areas yeah in a way that makes sense right because it doesn't say when you're freelance you know you will work 40 hours a week no more yeah yeah this is how many theaters you should design actually in a year it says it in Exodus (32:11) this is yeah so it doesn't actually it's not prescriptive but it has principles which says you know and I think those principles are if I read them Sabbath is good rest is good um work is good using work as a substitute for family and being with people maybe not so good yeah yeah um you know there are these sort of principles that we can learn in scripture but the Bible I think talks about working hard you know we're going we're going to get to in a second but the Bible talks about working as unto the Lord and God works six days out of (32:51) seven and we're you know where like do we do should we go down to a 4-day work week and everyone's like and and I don't get me wrong wrong I don't mean to be frivolous about that cuz I I I understand that there are benefits to this um in the modern society I I I do um but I think working hard is a Biblical yeah principle yeah um and modeling hard work is a Biblical principle but there's a real fine line yeah uh and I don't think I've always cracked that maybe you can talk to that CU you said you see it from the other (33:22) side don't you oh um sorry can you just clarify what you mean by that in as in there are times I don't think where I've had a good work life balance yeah there's definitely been times where I've had to kind of go uh are you going to you know have a bit of time off and yeah I think with you as well I think because you do love what you do sometimes I think you find it hard to differentiate between what is work and what is fun and pleasure yeah um because there's been times like in in your day off I'll be like oh what are you going to do today and you'll say stuff and (34:01) I'll be like but isn't that work and you're like well no because it's and I'm like in my head that's work but for you that doesn't seem to be so yeah just find enjoyment I'm just doing what Solomon's told me to do um but yeah it's an interesting one isn't it and and you're right and I think the my my experience here um is that there t to be seasons is and you I think and I've said this to you over now that I think sometimes you you can see them come up you go right this is going to be a season of busyness yeah and (34:39) actually for the next week few weeks month how long it's going to be life is going to be hectic and life is going to be busy yeah and I think that's okay because it's a season the thing about a season is it has an end date right yeah and I don't I I don't think a season of busyness is a life of insanity I I I think that there are times when it's going to be a bit yeah you know like I might have to travel or I might have to do a bit of extra work cuz someone's sick or whatever jimming you've got to cover bases a little bit but um but these (35:15) things are seasons like with you I think first year you are going to graft right you are going to work hard and you're going to take every opportunity that comes your way why would you not do that yeah right and it's but it's to season yeah if you're if you're working the same amount of hours fast forward 10 years yeah good then I'd be like uh yeah yeah yeah I think we need to have a conversation Ellie do you know what I mean but that's exactly as you say about the seasons you get to the end of those seasons and you reflect and you go oh (35:44) what would I do differently in the next busy season um and I think that is very very very very big very part for me definitely um I was also going to pick up on what you said about you mentioned briefly Sabbath and I don't know whether we're coming on to a bit more later sure let fast forward but I would just say that that's one of the things so I've started trying to honor the Sabbath a little bit this year which is feels it mad to say when it has been my busiest year um but it's been really really (36:12) amazing looking at how powerful stopping has been and I think um just the way that it completely interrupts stress is incredible and just forces you to slow down and that's good on like so many levels it's good on your kind of nervous system UL ation level of like just physically stopping slowing down makes you less less stressed and then you can approach things in a much better way but also um in terms of trusting God you if you're saying like I'm just not going to work for a whole day in my busiest season is massive and that's really (36:46) honoring to God I think and it's kind of saying that you are more important than my work or like I'm inviting you into it and um all of that is uh has been really really really fascinating actually learning about about this this year yeah a few years ago we read a book that that was a big component of wasn't it I can't remember the book now and the ruthless elimination of H I think there was a different one before that was it but that was a good book um and we decided that we were like Oh Hang on we're not actually doing this sabbath thing so we decided that we would take Saturday as a (37:19) day off for our family and not do any work and you know what I totally love it because it is that um that sense of okay I don't have to achieve anything today I don't have to do anything I'm just actually going to enjoy yeah what God's give me and just see where the day takes me whether that's with a friend or just not seeing anybody which is quite often what I like being a bit of an inch I do love being with people but I definitely need to be on my own to recharge and we had um I don't see it from Friday night to and there was um I think be just (37:57) around the beginning of the summer we just had quite a few busy weeks with visitors and other things where didn't really get that and I was not in a good way but really really affected me but I think one of the things that um struck me from the book was it was talking about tithing in terms of money and for those who are not familiar with that term um as Christians we uh the Bible kind of encourages us to give a tenth of our income yeah away before you do anything else with it and it's kind of a way of saying God I trust you with my (38:33) finances and this book talked about doing that as the Sabbath being the first day of the week just saying God I'm giving you this day and I'm trusting you with the rest of the week I'm trusting you with my work and that you'll provide everything that I need within those other six days and I quite like that way of thinking about it as well yeah no it's true I I think there we do talk talk about the tithe I think you have to be one of the things you see in scripture is generosity right it's an overarching principle you got to be (39:04) generous with your money or your treasure as I like to call it you got to be generous with your time you've got to be generous with your tongue and it's these three tithes in effect that you need to give you need to give of your finances you need to give of your time and you need to give of your tongue in other words build people up right this is one of the things the scripture talks go out of your way to build people up to encourage uh one another while it's still called today is what it says in Hebrews and I think before just as a complete aside if (39:37) we took that principle of saying something good and encouraging very F before we did anything else just give of our give our tongueing if you like I just wonder how different our debates would be and our disagreements yeah um but that's another story okay so uh Colossians 3 23 says whatever you do work heartily love that translation the ESV work heartily as for the Lord and not for men knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward so how do you what I guess my questions here is what do you understand (40:18) by that and how do you work heartly and how do you work for the Lord and not for men especially when it's men or women I suppose that employ you who wants to go first I quite like this and I found this quite helpful when I've been struggling with some of my projects and um if I'm working with someone who's frustrating me for example I knew you're going to say that it's really nice being like I'm drawing these Christmas trees for the Lord instead of for other people instead of for bleepy bleep bleep yeah yeah so I find it I find it quite helpful as a as a motivation um yeah I (41:03) don't know if that's a bit frivolous but yeah I don't think so yeah I totally agree I think it really helps in those situations where work is quite difficult or the people that we're with are quite difficult or you're not getting the pay that you think you deserve or the promotion you think you deserve or even if you're struggling to find a job and are just you know yeah are just doing things around the house for your family I think it just helps just shift your perspective yeah to it's helpful yeah (41:35) yeah that's what I'm trying to say yeah yeah yeah hey going back then to something that you just said there um if you're let's say you you've got the can I can I can I be slightly controversial and say Trad wife role which is a phrase that I learned the other day the Trad wife do you know what this is yeah you'll know what this is I had to learn what this meant the the Trad wife um you're a full-time mom um so you don't have paid income right you don't have a an employment as such now I know being a full-time m is next to being the pastor (42:12) of a church I think is probably one of the most difficult jobs in the world to do or fulltime dad now say again or full-time dad now yeah there are people full-time parents is probably a better phrase to put isn't it so you can be uh what do they call them House Husbands is that still the phrase that we use it's probably not allow out really sorry if I've just offended somebody yeah move on um but the the sort of the full-time parent role how does that tie in with the scripture and how did you tie that in with the scripture because you did the full-time M thing um I think for I mean for us it (42:46) was a definite choice and we felt like that was the right thing before God for us so and I wanted to do it so it's not like I was being forced into it which I think Chang es it a lot as well yeah um but I think it is thinking in like we said at the beginning that work is not just to do with something that you're paid for yeah and I think that changes it so there is that that sense of with bringing up kids it was um I guess seeing value in there is value in training children and putting your life into them yeah which I think (43:27) over and that has been viewed differently at different times in our culture hasn't it yeah it it changes all the time um but I think it's knowing knowing for yourself before God that this is the right thing for you to be doing at that time and um just seeing value in all different types of work yeah um yeah super important and I think doing that heartily doing that well heartily is such a good word do that heartedly which if I again fast forward in the notes let's talk about this because heartedly work heartly do this heartly in my mind is the exact opposite (44:11) principle to quiet quitting so this is a phrase that we've heard a lot in the Press recently there's a since Co I think there's been this massive sthe of people who are quite quitting you go to work you do the absolute bare minimum to get by you've checked out emotionally you've checked out mentally we're even now talking I think even France might have just have they just passed a law which says it's now illegal to con for an employer to contact their staff outside of office hours I think that's a different issue to quiet quitting though isn't it it is (44:48) but I think it it it's it's I think it's systematic or symptomatic of a culture that is going down a road of I'm going to do what the bare minimum is I want my money and then that's it yeah um and I'm not convinced and this was always my Approach you know when I got my first job working for Simon if you're watching you're a Legend um uh after after graduating working heartedly is I'm working as unto the Lord you can't quite quit Jesus and think that's going to be okay yeah do you know what I mean you can't emotionally check out and (45:33) that's not to say I think if you're in a job where you're abused by your boss or whatever that again there's so many caveats to all of this but as a general principle I think working heartedly is giving an awful lot and if there's one thing that I would say about there's a lot of things I would say about the guys that work for me here at the company they're all legends all of them are legends the people that have been with me the longest in fact all of the people that are here I mean there some guys started last week so I I don't know about them um but the people that work (46:07) with me are amazing people and they all work heartily does that make sense and I I wake up every day grateful for them um and so just you guys got anything you want to say on this yeah I think it just made me think back to the first scripture that we uh no it wasn't the first one the Ecclesiastes one where it's find enjoyment in your food drink and work if you're doing the kind of The Quiet quitting thing if you're um just kind of um signing out emotionally mentally like um from putting putting effort in you're not find it's because you're not finding enjoyment in your (46:43) work and kind of I guess what's tricky is is finding what the motivation is because I think it's what the mo motivation is of The Quiet quitting thing because it feels like a much wider societal thing rather than it's just you know people don't people don't want to work hard anymore I think it's everyone's really sad and they think money solves everything but yeah again that that that um that scripture says find enjoyment in your work not your money you know it doesn't mention anything about what you get out of it other than it's the (47:13) enjoyment in the action itself and that's not um that's not happening in that quiet quitting culture I suppose um but like I said I think the motivations for The Quiet quitting I think is much more complex um so it is and I think I think you have to wait if that's you I think you and you're a Christian I think you've got to look at that um I don't think I I don't know if you guys have ever heard the story The Acres of diamonds which is a it's an interesting story about a guy a farmer who had a farm and he he was farming the land you (47:45) know working all the hours not really enjoying his work or not finding the enjoyment in his work is probably a better way to put it and he hears about the small fortune that everybody is making doing diamond mines you know they they're hunting for diamonds and so he sells the farm and goes in search of diamonds in search of this better life and he he spends all his money and never really finds anything of any value and he he dies as a broken penniless man I may not be paying Total Justice to the story um but in essence this is what I remember (48:19) from it the guy that bought his farm no he went just wanted to be a farmer was walking through the farm and in the middle the farm was a stream he was crossing the stream one day and something glint and caught his eye and he found what was the start of one of the largest diamond mines in the world right and so the the the you know the the parable is quite straightforward isn't it it's like the very thing which you're seeking that you want to give up everything and go and find which you think is over there might be right here where you are yeah and I (48:51) think quite often we quit work or we stop work because we don't feel like we're enjoying it and I think it's easy to go I'm not enjoying it therefore it's not from God because God tells me to enjoy my work right um You Hear people like Steve Jobs talking about how um I think it was Steve Jobs that said if you find a job which you love you'll never have to work another day of your life you know and so everyone then heard that and thought right well I'm going to quit my job and become a yoga teacher or whatever because I love yoga so I'm going to go and teach it and of course (49:24) things start going a bit Peete Tong um a bit wrong again don't they and I think it's it's an interesting one isn't it I there's a book written who wrote it was it Cal newort I think become so good that they can't ignore you which which that actually if you take a job and you become really really good at that job and intentionally grow in it work hardly as unto the Lord you will find enjoyment in it yeah does that make sense and actually the the science and this the data tells us you might not enjoy it at the start and it's it's like learning to (50:02) play musical instrument you know it's going to sound awful but the more you do it the better you get um and I think there's something about longevity I think there's something about consistency that will enable you to enjoy your work if you get good at your work and accept the call of God into that particular job assuming that's where God's called you to be I'm not you know just if what I'm saying is if Works bad it doesn't mean you're not in the will of God M and if works great it doesn't mean that you are in the will of God (50:30) yeah does that make sense yeah have I given myself enough caveats there so tricky isn't it with this kind of topic yeah but yeah anything you want there are so many different situations um yeah I I just think as Christ followers I don't think it really gives us the luxury of turning up to a job and just going I'm here in body but I'm really not going to give you anything so I think if that's where we're at I think we need to look at what is going on yeah or that is it just that I need an attitude adjustment or is there something else going on that also needs looking at and not just yeah sweeping (51:11) under the carpet um yeah yeah and I I think just to say here as well coming back to this point if you are not currently in work and you are looking for work um if you've been long time longterm unemployed I appreciate that I mean I've never been long-term unemployed but I have gone through seasons of unemployment and I know that's not great and I think it's in those times where you can say God what would you have me do um so volunteering doing something getting involved in something I think is better (51:46) than just sitting and waiting for the phone to ring I appreciate that's not going to work for everybody um but you know what can you do what can you put your hand to uh and just find some work which will give you enjoyment whe not about money but about just getting involved in something because I think that's good for isn't it yeah it's good for a spr so in the Bible it talks about um uh bezel I think I pronounced his name right um so bezel is the Craftsman whom Craftsman whom God anointed I love this phrase Craftsman because I think I'm a bit of a Craftsman uh uh with special skills and (52:25) wisdom for a significant task so it's it says in Exodus it says uh the Lord said to Moses so just to be clear we're going back thousands of years now this is pre Jesus this is pre- New Covenant um I have called by name uh bezalel the son of Yuri son of her uh of the tribe of Judah I have filled him with the spirit of God with ability and intelligence with knowledge and all craftsmanship to devise artistic design to work in gold silver and bronze in cutting stones for setting and in carving wood to carry out and to work in every craft so Exodus 31 1-5 so talking (53:08) about um I'm just going to call him baz much easier much easier baz talking about baz so here there's a really clear reference in the Bible that this guy is a Craftsman which means he has worked hard at his craft you don't it's not like you just oh I'm a Craftsman right you have to work really hard um which he did so hand in hand he is working on but at the same time God talks about how the spirit of the Lord is upon him to do this task and it goes on later in the book of Exodus talk about how him and another guy were sanctioned to you know (53:40) get involved with the temple and all kinds of cool stuff but it's it's like I love this because God has got involved God has anointed him God has skilled him um we were saying before we recorded you know God gave them all ability and intelligence and I I think there's a lot of people that God still needs to give intelligence to um I'm probably one of them to be fair um but I read this and I'm super super encouraged what about you guys yeah massively massively I think it's so I think especially doing a creative job um and working in theater and essentially my (54:19) whole job is making things look nice um it is so encouraging to remember that that is something that um God has given me um and that it's a useful thing and an intentional thing that he's given that to me um because sometimes I just feel like oh my job is useless and that it's not helpful and it doesn't do anything to advance the kingdom or doesn't you know make an impact in people's lives because I'm just drawing things um but it's so lovely reading this being like Oh no this is this is part of it this is part of how we're made to be so here you are (54:55) you've gone to University M you've done the graft and you are working your craft but at the same time God's anointed you to do the very thing that you're doing yeah and that's amazing yeah it is it really is it's really cool isn't it yeah yeah yeah sorry yeah sort of vaguely related to this is I think from the Bible it's like all different types of work have got dignity whereas within our cultures we tend to like rank each other don't we and like people like low and others that are high and quite often I think in Western culture the more practical jobs have (55:38) been seen as less than I mean this again very broad Strokes I'm not saying all the time whereas the more intellectual kind of a things are seen as like more valuable but I from the Bible I kind of feel like God has anointed different people for different jobs and they've all got their own value in themselves and that actually our worth as people anyway is not based on what we can do or what we don't do it's based on the fact that we're human and that God loves us but yeah I do I do I do like that the fact that you can be anointed to do (56:15) these very practical things that don't seem particularly spiritual but actually we live in this physical world was created for us and God anoints all diff different people for different types of jobs yeah yeah super and just say God anoints means god empowers right God gives us gifts and abilities and I think it's interesting how God called baz a Craftsman um and I would venture to say actually I don't know if I'd preach a whole sermon on this I don't know if I'd form a theology out of this other than I (56:53) think God is interested in creating crafts so if I think about Adam he would have been a Craftsman at what he did right Jesus I I cannot wait to see the furniture that Jesus would have created as a carpenter yeah do know what I mean and I and I appreciate he was the son of God he could have gone to a tree and said tree turn yourself into a table and chairs kind of get the feeling that he didn't do that that he took out a soore and a plane and would have figured it out um and I think God is interested in craftsmanship and working with you so that you become (57:33) really good at what you do now Jesus that was carpentry for me that will be e-commerce I I always want to learn and grow and develop in what we're doing because I'm kind of like I I don't know if I'd use this phrase maybe I should you know I want to be a Craftsman where ecom's concerned or where podcasting is concerned or where pastoring a church is concerned or M um I want to be a Craftsman I do do carpentry I'm not saying my furniture is as good as us as at all but I'm getting pretty close on know um but it's kind of like I I want to be a Craftsman in that area and that pursuit of (58:12) craftsmanship I think is quite quite a Godly one yeah so yeah any thoughts on this no I like that and as well you've if you're talking about calling as well it's like um Jesus is the Bible talks about how God's called different people for different things you've got David called to be king and then it talks about other leaders where God has put them in place so you've got very different you've got from quite intricate work with piece of wood to leaders of whole Nations and I think it can also help to stop that (58:51) whole comparison thing which comes in because it's like we're not all called to do the same thing M um that if you are good with a piece of wood that's no less value than if you are leading a whole nation if that's what God's called you to do yeah and just doing that to the best of our ability as to God yeah and giving that as an offering to him yeah again I just find that quite helpful yeah yeah yeah super powerful become a Craftsman or craft woman or a crafts person I just crafty no no don't become crafty I think that translates into something different enough to take my jacket oh we're almost finished (59:36) now taking your jacket off I did want to leave with this one story about working as unto the Lord I remember when I was working uh in an employed role uh I've not been employed much of my life but when I was employed um and I remember I was struggling once with my pay as in I thought I should have been paid more than what I was being paid and I was kind of I moaning To God In Prayer is probably the right phrase um uh I you know as Christians were I was praying about it yeah you were moaning about it is probably the right thing to say um and so I was I was talking to God and I just felt God say to me in that phrase (1:00:22) in that phase Matt you see your employer I won't name them but you see your employer as your provider if you can give me chapter and verse I'm all for that but I'm your provider right God is our provider he's our ultimate source now there are scriptures that talk about how money comes through our work we didn't get a chance to get into those which maybe for another time but fundamentally God is my provider and actually I just needed to readjust my my eyesight like where does my help come from and so it wasn't that I didn't (1:00:58) need to go and talk to my employeer about a pay rise I'm not saying that what I'm saying is it was a heart thing MH and it was a check for me to go actually things aren't easy my head is in a not a great place but Jesus you are my provider right you provide all things um the year that I did that and I remember it so clearly do you remember we were given Financial gifts that were more than my salary that year and there are reasons for that I'm not going to get into it but what I am saying is sometimes God likes to show off (1:01:35) um that's maybe the wrong phraseology but you get what I mean in terms of and it's not happened any year since I just want to point that out right um but if it does great um but at that that was when I was like actually I need to see Jesus as my provider and I my focus was realigned back to him that year we had a few miraculous things happen and that really cemented that lesson to me and so every time work has got tricky you know and it has um there's a lady that works for us she's awesome she's not a Christian but whenever things go A (1:02:07) bit pear-shaped she always come to me and says you just need to do that prayer thing no which is you know it's great testimony isn't it um but it's like when things have got tricky I just need to remind myself Jesus is the one that provides um and I think he does that through our labor he does that through our work but if there's no work he'll get it to me by the birds if he has to right so um we can have confidence in him to provide for us irrespective of what does or does not happen in the labor market yeah um would be where I'm trying to get to with this yeah yeah that's good right I am aware (1:02:45) of time uh any final comments from you Miss Ellie no no I think that's great I think it's really good I think the the main thing I would say is the acknowledgement as you've sort of just touched on there is the difference between um work as we understand it in kind of Western World and um work that is given by God that is not kind of fitting into the traditional exchange for money kind of work that's the that's probably the biggest thing for me y taken away cool babe I think for me I think we might have vaguely touched about it but the work oh there's a verse in your notes somewhere that (1:03:26) talks about how work helps to provide for ourselves but also so we've got enough to give so I think again in our culture here quite often work can be about proving yourself and giving yourself status and this whole individualistic kind of thing but I think from the Bible it's more than that it's not it it is about we have responsibility to provide for ourselves and our families but it's more than that it's that generosity that you mentioned about um benefiting society as a whole benefiting our neighbors benefiting (1:04:04) those around us so yeah there's that whole other element which we could probably talk those out that don't have time for yeah yeah maybe another week I mean we it's I love these debate uh the debates these discussions because you just scratch the surface don't you and you get excited by a few things and you just remind yourself of the key things works from God he is my provider he provides enjoy ment in my work there's this whole idea of becoming a Craftsman I just need to work hardly as unto the Lord everything else beyond that yes there's subtleties and nuances that we need to think about um but the bottom (1:04:39) line here is work is a good thing and it is from God and I think we can take enjoyment in that and enjoy that wherever we are whatever God's called us into wherever we find ourselves and we can have that you know even in the midst of the craziness uh so hope it's brought some encouragement to you uh talking about this next week we are talking about the changes coming up to crowd church so uh I think it says on the schedule that we're talking about doing Church um so we're going to talk a little bit about what it means to go to church what does all that look like how does that think work and feel for us but a lot of the (1:05:16) time he going to be looking at what we're going to be doing from October In Crowd why we're doing it and so explaining that in a little bit more detail so do come join us if you can super excited about what's coming up well I are you yeah getting there yes yes I am very excited that's awesome getting so yeah so do come join us for that uh so subscribe uh or like or follow or what whatever it is you need to do whatever platform you're engaging with us on um if you'd like to reach out to us do reach out to us via the website www. crow. or you can reach out to us on (1:05:54) social media at crowd Church church we will endeavor to get back to you and respond to you um thanks for joining and Matt says thanks for tonight folks thanks Matt you're Legend thanks bye um and so yeah if you've been uh joining us live it's been great being with you if you've been listening on catchup uh fantastic why not come join one of the live streams uh you'll find us on YouTube Facebook I want say we live stream on Facebook and I think we're live stream on Instagram although we didn't tonight cuz I forgot so sorry about that um but yes so do come join us (1:06:27) it' be great to see you but uh that's it from me that's it from you goodbye and that's it from you thanks so much see you later we didn't even rehearse that I mean that was proper professional uh so thank you for joining us have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world we'll see you next time bye for now bye thank you so much for joining us here on crowd church now if you are watching on YouTube make sure you hit the Subscribe Button as as well as that little tiny bell notification to get notified the next time we are live and of course if you are listening to the (1:07:04) podcast uh the live stream podcast make sure you also hit the follow button Now by Smashing the like button on YouTube or writing a review on your podcast platform it helps us reach more people with the message that Jesus really does help us live a more meaningful and purposeful life so if you you haven't done so already be sure to check out our website www.c crow. (1:07:36) church where you can learn more about us as a church more about the Christian faith and also how to connect into our church Community it has been awesome to connect with you and you are awesome it's just a burden you have to bear and hopefully we'll see you next time that's it from us God bless you bye now