Will Sopwith challenges two common misconceptions about evil: that it's just superstition or entertainment, and that it's always "other people's problem." Exploring Genesis, he reveals evil's three components - power, perversion, and pain - while showing how evil fundamentally disrupts relationships. Rather than being powerless victims, Christians are called to respond with practical action: being honest about evil's reality, countering it with grace, and fighting for the vulnerable. Evil wasn't part of God's original design, and through Christ, we can participate in God's restoration work right now.
01Talk notes
Ever wonder why we're so fascinated by evil in our entertainment but convinced it's always someone else's problem? Will Sopwith challenges our comfortable assumptions about evil - and reveals why it's closer to home than we'd like to admit.
Will (who wasn't allowed out trick-or-treating as a child) unpacks what the Bible actually says about evil. Spoiler alert - it's not just about Halloween costumes or psychopathic villains. It's about understanding the reality that runs through every human heart - including our own.
02Two Ways We Get Evil Wrong
Will started with two childhood memories that capture how we typically misunderstand evil. First, his protective Christian parents who banned Halloween - representing the tendency to downplay evil as mere superstition or entertainment. Second, the horrific murder of Jamie Bulger by two young boys in Liverpool - representing our tendency to cast evil as extreme and "other."
Both responses miss the mark. The first pretends evil isn't real. The second distances us from it entirely.
"The smalltown Britain of my childhood mostly mocked the idea of evil," Will shared. "It was considered either a bit of superstition or possibly a bit of fright night adrenaline." But technological progress and enlightenment thinking haven't eliminated evil - they've just given us new ways to avoid facing it.
The Holocaust shattered comfortable assumptions that human progress would naturally lead to moral progress. Yet we still prefer to blame evil on "crazy despots" or "twisted upbringings" - anything to keep it safely distant from normal, decent people like us.
03What Evil Actually Looks Like
Will identified three universal components of evil that appear throughout history and across cultures:
Power - Evil is almost always motivated by the pursuit of control over others, especially the defenceless or weak. This happens at personal, systemic, and organisational levels.
Perversion - Evil works by twisting and corrupting what's good and normal. It sidesteps moral boundaries, works in darkness, and thrives on chaos by constantly shifting the rules.
Pain - Evil results in destruction and suffering, whether through emotional scarring, physical harm, or the devastation of communities and cultures.
These three elements appear right at the beginning of the biblical story. The snake in Eden seeks power over God's creation, perverts God's word to Adam and Eve, and the result is pain - separation from God, broken relationships, and the promise of suffering.
04Evil as Relationship Breakdown
One of Will's most striking insights was that evil is fundamentally about disrupted relationships. The Genesis account shows this pattern repeating: the perfect fellowship of the garden is broken, Adam and Eve turn against each other, and by the next generation we see the first murder between brothers.
"Evil is first and foremost a disruption of relationship," Will explained. This helps us understand why unforgiveness can become such fertile ground for resentment and anger - the very things that lead to greater evil.
The Bible traces this pattern throughout human history: broken relationships multiplying and spreading until, as Genesis 6 describes, "every inclination of everybody's heart was evil all the time."
05Where Evil Comes From (And Why It Doesn't Matter)
Frustratingly, the Bible doesn't give us a detailed origin story for evil. The snake simply appears in Genesis 3 as part of God's good creation, yet whispering mischief. There are hints elsewhere - Lucifer's pride, the Satan as accuser, the dragon in Revelation - but no complete explanation.
Will's take? It doesn't matter. "It's a bit like musing on why water is so wet as you see it gushing from a leak in your radiator rather than actually working to mend the leak."
What we can say is that evil wasn't part of God's original design. Unlike other ancient creation stories that balanced good and evil gods, the Bible's first two chapters focus entirely on goodness. Evil appears as an impostor, an intruder - under God's ultimate authority but spreading rapidly once introduced.
06Conversation Street: Wrestling with Evil
During our discussion time, several important questions emerged:
How should Christians respond to evil in the world?
Will outlined three key responses: First, be real about it - call evil what it is rather than downplaying or explaining it away. Second, recognise we're not passive victims - we can choose to counter evil with humility, forgiveness, and surprising demonstrations of love. Third, fight for those under evil's crushing weight through prayer, protest, creative alternatives, and protecting the vulnerable.
How do we respond to Christians who pick and choose who they help?
This prompted discussion about hypocrisy within the church. Will noted that Jesus was incredibly vocal about religious hypocrisy, calling out leaders who failed to live up to their moral claims. The challenge is calling out inconsistency while walking in integrity ourselves, showing by our lives that we have something better to offer.
Why are we so fascinated by evil in entertainment?
Dan made a brilliant observation: most stories, from Marvel movies to horror films, are essentially retellings of the Bible's fundamental narrative - the war between good and evil. "It's kind of the oldest story... it's just told over and over because it echoes deep in the human soul."
07God's Response to Evil
Throughout Genesis, we see God's twofold response to evil: judgment and mercy. He banishes Adam and Eve from Eden but clothes them. He judges Cain for murdering Abel but protects him from harm. Wherever you find God's judgment in the Bible, Will noted, look for the mercy that goes with it - it's almost always there.
God's heart is restoration. The entire biblical story traces this balance between judging evil's destructiveness and restoring good creation. The ultimate expression of this is Jesus - the only one who could finally address evil's grip on creation through his death and resurrection.
08What We Can Do Now
Will closed with practical steps for responding to evil:
Be real about it - Evil is a thing. It's not someone else's problem. The potential to choose evil or good runs through each of us.
We're not passive victims - In Christ, we can overcome evil not just by avoiding it but by countering it with demonstrations of love that stop others dead with surprise.
Fight for those under evil's weight - Pray, protest, build alternatives, protect the vulnerable, refuse to normalise evil's twisting pursuit of power.
As Romans 12:21 puts it: "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."
09Hope for the Crushing Weight
Perhaps the most encouraging part of Will's message was the reminder that we're not powerless. Yes, evil is real. Yes, it's closer than we think. But it's not inevitable, and God is not powerless in the face of it.
The choice that led to the first evil - whether to trust God or grab for independence and superiority - is still before us. If we can choose to embrace evil, we can also choose to shun it. And shunning it isn't about finding someone to blame or casting evil as "other." It's about honest reckoning before God that we too could walk that way - but we choose not to.
As Psalm 27 says: "I am sure of this - that I will see the goodness of God in the land of the living."
That's the hope that carries us through: not just waiting for heaven, but actively participating in God's restoration work right here, right now. Because every act of forgiveness, every demonstration of grace, every stand against injustice is a small victory against evil's claim on this world.
10What's Your Next Step?
Evil might feel overwhelming when you watch the news or consider global injustices. But Will's message reminds us that we're not just waiting for a better world - we're called to create it.
Where do you see relationship breakdown in your own life that needs healing? How might God be calling you to counter evil with surprising grace? What vulnerable people in your community need advocates?
The snake's whisper in the garden promised power without relationship, knowledge without trust. But God's way has always been different: restoration through sacrifice, power through service, victory through love.
That's the story we're invited into. Not as passive victims of evil, but as active participants in the greatest restoration project in history.
Topics in this talk
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(240) Evil Is Not What You Think It Is (Genesis Part 8) - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-kVATmV3lY
Transcript: (00:00) welcome to Crow church it's great to see you all here tonight um yeah we're nearly at the end of February and half term for anyone who's got kids um so yeah we we've made it Dan I'm joined by Dan tonight welcome Dan nice to see you um yes made it halterm you've had a very busy halterm I've sort of worked and Hal termed at the same time bit both bit of child care work yeah fun fun um we went to Scotland for a few days which was nice Scotland is always beautiful but it was very wet very rainy very windy oh (00:39) not much snow not much snow just wet wet but anyway that's what Scotland's designed for a few days break yeah um yeah how about yours yes I went to my parents they live up in the Lake District so it wasn't wet but it was chilly very cold but it was nice yeah and then that's good got almost got through February which is like I think the coldest of the Year certainly here in England um yeah tell us what's coming up today then so we've got the wonderful Will he's here he's in the house he's ready and he's gonna got some weeps will (01:17) tonight little and Will's going to be talking about evil today so it's quite a I know yeah we should put some Reverb on um so I think that's going to be quite I've got some questions don't know if if I write the questions down do I have to then answer them so I'm looking forward to this yeah looking forward to talk I am and it's obviously carrying on our Series in Genesis I think this is the eighth in our series now so yeah the question the problem the issue of evil what we do with it should we say what's coming up next week now yeah tell us now (01:54) so we don't forget later that's always good isn't it so we've got Pete butland coming next week and I think he's a crowd newbie so not heard him before but he's pastor of a local church and he's going to be talking about Kan and Abel so um that would be really interesting talk I'm looking forward to that as well that's awesome I like that one because it's kind of it's that issue of like anger and jealousy and siing rival going on in that story yeah and judgment and everything happens doesn't it like in a few chapters and Genesis is pretty (02:25) packed isn't it yeah I mean a lot happens it's actually quite a long book of the B isn't it so yeah who knows how long we'll be going it for um but I think we should probably pass over and here tonight's message and then we'll come back afterwards um for conversation street so if you've got any questions thoughts comments um then you can post them as Will's talking and we'll try and pick those up afterwards Dan and myself will be joined by Will and we'll have a bit of a discussion time after his talk so we can kind of (02:57) unpick some of the ideas in it but yeah let's pass over will and hear what he has to say you all and to see you online um when I was growing up in late 70s Britain I came from the sort of family that did not like me to go trick or treating to be fair it wasn't as big back then as it is now you didn't start seeing the costumes and the Suites come into supermarkets the of September as you do now uh slowly more and more of a thing over from the states I think um but I don't remember being allowed out once on Halloween night or going to a party of friends and you may have a number of (03:43) reactions to that you may perhaps uh recognize this from your own childhood uh you may feel somewhat pitying that I had such smothering protective parents that wouldn't allow me out uh with my friends you may as I remember being exposed to uh be a little bit um mocking of such a view such a scenario that I find myself in or you may even nod in agreement at my parents choice you see my parents were out and out Christian uh they took seriously the verse in Philippians 4:8 which says whatever is true whatever is right whatever is pure whatever is lovely (04:31) whatever is admirable think about such things now you'd be glad to hear apart from a bit of rip take at school um I've emotionally survived the trauma of not going out uh for trick or treat uh for all of my childhood another memory uh this time from the 90s is the fuzzy CCTV still and the front page mug shots of two young boys with freaks of nature plastered across their photos this was the horrific unfolding of the murder of Jamie buer a toddler by two young Liverpool boys just up the road from where we are now it was a time of national disbelief (05:23) incredulousness something this like this could could have happened in people so young particularly it was a time of soul searching in the national press on on TV it was a time of finding someone to blame blame seeking to make help make sense of this tragic and horrible afternoon I mention these two scenarios because they encapsulate two very common perspectives on our topic this evening the problem of evil and one is to downplay the reality of it and the other is to distance ourselves from it to cast (06:06) it as something extreme and different over there and these two perceptions can then directly influence our responses to it now the smalltown Britain of my childhood as I remember it mostly mocked the idea of evil it was more or less consigned to the realm of dressing up as ghosts skeletons monsters on Halloween maybe the odd Devil entites with a trident it was considered either a bit of superstition or possibly a bit of Fright Night adrenaline that was about the limit of it the so-called video nasty era of the (06:46) 80s some of you may remember or have heard about was considered a whole lot of hype by some overprotected parents mostly religious in their outlook for the majority of people I'd say evil just wasn't a thing and I think behind this was a view that we had somehow progressed well beyond the rather medieval Superstition of evil that our enlightened scientific Outlook uh could explain every type of Behavior now perhaps justify the actions of every supposed evildoer on the basis of our increasing grasp of psychology for example as we continually as we continue (07:26) to technologically progress address every material want break down the strict old morality silos the world's becoming a better place yeah as an observer in the early 1930s you'd probably have concluded that the economic recovery of Germany was ushering in one of the most modern and certainly most technologically advanced nations of the world this of course was under the leadership of the new Nazi party but as we know the impr Rive Industrial Development technological innovation somehow did not result in enlightened (08:09) Humanity in fact the second world war and more particularly the Holocaust became the very definition of evil shook a generation out their comfortable assumption that evil was just an artifact maybe of out ofate religion ah but that was because there was a craz despot in charge the spread of liberal democracy across the globe hand inhand with Commerce material wealth put an end to dictatorships once for all then we'll see the sunny Uplands of settled Society mutual respect for Humanity equality freedom of expression peace (08:51) opportunity harmonious Community oh hang on slave trade ethnic cleansing in sweat shops sex exploitation crippling International debt every possible market for every possible addiction wrecking lives it's not the answer I'm sure many might still hold the view that evil really isn't a thing but I'd suggest it's becoming a harder and harder position to take evil is increasingly talked about and it's usually in the context of an inexplicably horrific crime or in reference to a a cold-hearted psychopath how many times in the past few years have you heard a report from a a courtroom or a police investigation (09:41) about staff being traumatized by the evidence they've had to go through as being the worst they've seen in their whole professional careers I certainly have and any cursory look through a streaming service or or even a Bookshop might suggest we're we're fascinated by evil perhaps even obsessed by it it's entertainment I had a friend at University that used to go and watch really dark art housee films back then they would never got close to a multiple Multiplex uh and the reason he gave us to remind himself that he was normal (10:21) which perhaps is arguable but this is the second response evil is other it's got absolutely nothing to do with me or any other decent reasonable people even in good action movies we like our baddies to be really bad almost to the point of caricature so that we're totally with the final violence that's Meed out on them in the in The Showdown theyve totally justified it by their cruel actions and in this mindset the brutality of narcissism was down to Hitler's personal insecurities obsessions Insanity even it's the Twisted upbringing of such and such a criminal that results in that horrific abuse it's the greed of a very (11:09) few white men that results in the oppression of such and such a minority it's the Misunderstood pain of such and such a school shooter that results in the deaths of those children maybe it's the extreme religious views of that particular sect that causes that Massacre which we are not like them they are other inhuman they need locking up or bombed into Oblivion but what really is evil it's closer to each one of us than you might care to think there are three common components that think are pretty Universal it's (11:57) motivation its mechanism and its result and as I see it evil is almost always motivated by the pursuit of power now this might be power at a personal and individual level but just as commonly a system or an organizational level the desire and impetus to control another to manipulate them for your own benefit to dominate them seems to me common thread in all that we would count as evil especially when the one being dominated is defenseless or weak the mechanism is very often perverting the co the and twisting the (12:48) acceptable Norm i' for frame this is perverting God's good order undoing the activity of God if you like evil seeks to sidestep moral Norms work in the darkness outside the law it thrives on chaos especially when the one being sorry and constantly disrupts or changes moral Norms to achieve that to maintain that chaos by breaking out of the law finally I think the result of evil is almost always the perpetration of pain and or destruction it might be the permanent emotional or physical scarring of a vulnerable individual through abuse the destruction of a tribe or culture or (13:39) ethnicity pain is not always a specific goal of evil but it almost always is the result and these three PS power perversion and pain are laid out right at the start of the biblical account that we've been looking at our Series in Genesis has brought us to that most famous of pictures the Temptation and fall of Adam and Eve in the garden with the snake if you watched last week we were hearing about um how the whispering snake seeks to gain power over God's pinle of creation humankind the Temptation for Eve was (14:20) specifically to gain power outside of God's guidelines the mechanism is by twisting God's word to Adam and Eve perverting the perfect order and fellowship of the garden by dangling the temptation of instant Godlike knowledge you will be like God if you eat this apple and the result is pain personal separation from God and the garden antagonism between this first relationship Adam and Eve the promise of painful childbearing and toil on the [Music] earth and then we see in the Next Generation the Bible's first murder (15:07) which we looking at in more detail next week and it's a sequence repeated again and again through the Bible evil is first and foremost A disruption of relationship now I suggest that the Bible is far more honest about evil than most of our cultural and philosophical grapplings with it and it talks about the persistent influence of evil in Creation in fact one reading of the whole span of the Bible could be how does God address the problem of evil and restore the relationships that are broken by it we start here in the garden everything is perfect everything is good There Is No (15:52) Death there's no poverty there's no hardship and the Bible describes the whole span of human history touching upon the different approaches that people have taken to try and address evil and finally we arrive at the Book of Revelation right at the end of The Bible and this is a description of a return to that original Perfection and it's revealed to be a perfect City where God is again restored in perfect relationship with his people and creation is once again as it it was made to be and of course the central pivot of this whole biblical story is Jesus the (16:36) only one is both God and man that could finally address the grip of evil and Death on God's creation and Jesus was God's ultimate plan no amount of right living or religious observance could deal with evil in quite the same way so the Bible doesn't believe little evil pretend it's not real and it doesn't ultimately seek to blame another either the Bible recognizes that actually we all have the potential for evil it's an issue we personally need to own but amazingly one that we can also personally overcome but our Focus today is here in (17:25) Genesis now frustratingly the Bible does not really tell us where evil comes from in the first place in this story The Snake is suddenly there in Genesis 3 apparently part of God's good creation of all things and yet here Whispering Mischief into Eve's ear there are suggestions in the Bible that evil came first through the pride of Lucifer a renegade Angel elsewhere we see evil personified as the Satan which basically means the Accuser part of the Visions relayed in the Book of Revelation describe a dragon poised (18:04) to devour humankind at its very birth but there's no real explanation of how the snake came to be there in the garden now this is beyond my scope here and to be honest an argument about why there is evil and where it came from is a distraction for something which I think is far more pressing what are we supposed to be doing about it it's a bit like musing on why water is so wet as you see it gushing from a leak in your radiator rather than actually working to mend the leak however what we can say is that evil was not an integral part of God's (18:48) original design it's not there as a counterbalancing force to the goodness of God and very often kind of parallel accounts in the ancient world of creation would have this they'd have a a balance of Good and Evil gods and somehow people were kind of caught in the crossfire and they had to um appease one or the other or God himself was a mix of Good and Evil and sacrifice was the way to get on the good side snakes actually were often thought of and depicted as Divine but in contrast the Bible's first two chapters Focus entirely on telling us and how good everything was the goodness of God bringing forth (19:35) order and Beauty there was no evil there at the beginning it's portrayed very much as an impostor as an intruder and crucially evil is under God's ultimate Authority the snake has no Godlike power in the story of Genesis once introduced however evil rapidly spreads it accumulates and grows through the whole book from the deceit of eating the Apple to murder within the first family's children to a whole society in chaos where every inclination of everybody's heart was evil all the time every every all that's in Genesis 6 (20:20) to5 it reached a point of almost saturation in God's creation you might conclude that evil is inevitable that we're rather powerless in the face of it and I confess that's all from my experience particularly if I've spent too long in a week listening to the news the naked self-interest of the talk around Ukraine this week and the ongoing hatred of the situation in the Middle East has been particularly troubling pursuit of power perversion of Truth pain but before we get too gloomy let's turn to what God does we see in Genesis that actually evil is not (21:12) inevitable the God is Not powerless in the face of it this first evil in response to the snake stems originally from a choice the choice of humankind to put their trust in the good Creator God or grab for themselves a superiority and Independence but here there is hope if we can choose to embrace evil it follows that we can also choose to shun it and shunning it is not the same as finding someone to blame casting evil as other to be locked up or bombed into submission this is an honest Reckoning before God that we too could walk (22:00) that way and reject God's created order but we choose not to God's response is twofold first of all he judges evil it was it's got no part in his good creation but God also limits it he contains it does not completely abandon the creation to it so God banishes is Adam and Eve from Eden but he clothes them and still gives them the Earth as an inheritance God judges Cain for murdering his brother Abel but still has Mercy promising that he will be protected from harm as he wanders the Earth so-called Mark of (22:50) Cain wherever you come across God's judgment in the Bible look too for the mercy that goes with it it's almost always there and as I've said that the ultimate story of God Through the Bible is this continuing balance between judging the seriousness and destructiveness of evil and restoring his good creation God is never willing to entirely turn his back on the rebellion and ugliness and pain that results from evil but God's heart is restoration God is the master restorer and again the Pinnacle of this is the death and resurrection of Jesus from which point (23:37) the full restoration can begin obviously we're not there yet we have the hope of heaven but is that it is that the best we can do about evil now in closing first let's be real about it evil is a thing it's not someone else's problem the potential to choose evil or choose good runs right through each one of us whether you have faith or not God calls us to choose life second we are not passive victims of evil in Christ the Bible says we can overcome it not just by choosing to avoid it but by countering it wherever (24:32) we see it at work with humility with forgiveness with demonstrations of love and compassion that stop others Dead with surprise practice Grace third we are to fight for those under Evil's crushing weight pray protest creatively build alternative approaches protect those most vulnerable work at Community refuse to accept or normalize Evil's twisting pursuit of power and yes Hope for heaven your kingdom come your will be done on Earth as it is in heaven in Psalm 27 it says I am sure of this that I will see the goodness of God in the land of the (25:39) living and that too is my prayer amen oh man wow what a lot was packed into that talk that was amazing wasn't it thank you so much well that was an awesome talk and yeah what did you think Dan yeah that was great can I just say sorry about the technical issues with the sound we've just put some new tech in so in theory it should be clearer but it was obviously too quiet we will work on it we've got a bit of a workaround so apologies for that okay um back to the talk yeah back to the talk I know nothing about the tech so back to the (26:19) talk um yeah really interesting will thank you for that um I just kind to think that the bits that spoke out to me and one was this you you mentioned at the beginning um it's always other people oh we're not like them uh and that's often I I'm all right um they must be really bad and um perhaps that jumping far ahead we can we can do that same thing with us and and God well I'll probably get into heaven cuz they're really bad I'm not that bad but we do we have a different standard I'll put that out there leading question yeah it's a good one though (27:05) isn't it and I also I also just like the way that will talked a bit about sort of how you can feel quite powerless can't you against the big evils in the world like you know these you know Tech Bros who are mentioning their names you know threatening democracy in different European nations right now and you think God what can we do in the face like in the face of like big powerful people and systems and yeah it's it's like I I found it inspiring because it's like actually we do have a role to play as Christians like sometimes you can feel quite depressed when you look at the news and all of them evil in the world (27:45) can't you but it yeah I found that really encouraging actually good yeah but the the problem of of it being other and and so extreme and outside of our normality is that it it numbs you it paralyzes you to do anything about it because well it's so it's so outside of my normality and it's so outside of my influence that well I'm just kind of you almost get a little bit of a Siege mentality I'm like I'm I'm just waiting for a better world I'm just waiting for Revelation in that perfect city um but but actually um yeah and and that that (28:18) cannot be our response as Christians as the church we we're here we need to be doing something about it now because so many people are are actually caught under that that weight of of yeah pursuit of power and another thing you you said and I picked up on was that um evil isn't a counterbalance so the there are some theories theories not the word there's religions are suppose aren't there that that it's just a a ying and a Yang I don't I don't know enough of those details but that there's always going to be bad because has to be the (28:54) evil the opposite I don't believe that because well I don't believe that what do you believe well well I think I think you're really right though I think that's what's quite unique about Christianity isn't it that we have a hope in a future where all things will be made right again and that that is why I practice Christianity and not another similar Faith because I don't know about you but I really want and need that hope that one day all things will be made right again and that is something that's quite unique actually you don't just keep (29:28) coming back again and again or you're not just slave to endless Karma or if you if you do something good then something bad has to happen um I just wrote at the end of my notes was that Jesus broke the power of sin and death didn't he and that sin amen is where that evil comes from it's broken so it doesn't have to be a continuing thing um often when there is pain in the world and Pain's inflicted on you then it's like a cycle pain pain happens to someone you think I don't want this to happen again but in that (29:59) just in that hurt it can be passed on and Jesus came to break to break that cycle so it doesn't have to keep going on and on and on yeah there was a few really good questions that came through as well while we were listening to will so one of them um which we can pick well we can pick them all up but one of them was how should Christians respond to evil in the world and I think will did kind of touch on this towards the end of the talk I don't know if you wanted to pick up these points again will yeah yeah happy (30:29) to and there were three really that came to me as as preparing that the first thing is to call it what it is to be to be re very real about it and you know that story of my upbringing of of kind of just like belittling it and going evil isn't really a thing I really don't think we can we can talk like that anymore I think I think it's so obviously a thing um even with all of our uh development and wealth um in the west you know you see it everywhere um but being real about it and and calling it out for what it is I think is is the first really crucial uh response um but (31:05) also yeah that that hope that inspiration we're not just passive victims um of it so there's something personally we can do um and you know the way I said that was to um not just choosing to avoid it but actually come with something better something opposite with humility with forgiveness I mean forgiveness is a huge a huge thing there's there's such a within a kind of personal relationships unforgiveness can be such a breeding ground for um resentment and anger and and all the things that kind of lead lead to evil so (31:36) for our personal relationships we have a role but then the third thing is actually on a wider kind of societal level to actually be advocates for those that that are under the crush of evil um and and you know you can probably all think of examples there um and rather than sort of sitting back and going oh yeah it's just inevitable and you what can we do get out there do do stuff um and again that part of that is calling it out you know that the church and Christians they you have to be vocal you have to be not standing for the (32:12) status quo you know and and I see you know a lot of the a lot of the stuff that's going on across the Atlantic there's a kind of a people are just sort of like whoa what what what is going on and and it that kind of moving outside of norm moral Norms or legal Norms um people don't know what to do with that it's like well you're supposed to do this and you're not doing this and and actually someone's got to stand up and say this is not right well is it so Romans 12:21 says this it says do not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good so is (32:51) that is that just protesting or is that saying this is happening I'm going to do good people starving I'm going to do something about it people are being slaves I'm going to do something yeah I I think it's both I mean you know it starts with us obviously it starts with our own attitudes and and examining it and again being real about the fact that um we all have that potential um to be walking in a way that's uh that's against God that's that ultimately leaves to evil let's not be um yeah I I actually think it's um I actually think it's like not really an option for Christians not to you know to just sit (33:33) back and I don't think Jesus gave us that option to just sit off and go oh never mind it's not really my problem like it's right there in the Lord's Prayer it struck me as we was talking it says you know um lead us not into temptation Deliver Us from all evil you know and Jesus teaches us to pray that to actively engage with issues of evil and to ask him to Deliver Us from them so is that kind wielding prayer but then also kind of part of that prayer is the way you act and the way you live your life out is part of that prayer as well I think got a question in the in the (34:08) yeah in the actual room what okay so just to recap for anyone who didn't hear it on screen so how do we respond as Christians to other Christians believers who pick and choose like who they include or kind of who they do good to yeah yeah okay any thoughts guys well I mean Jesus over nicely didn't I je Jesus was was incredibly vocal about this wasn't he I mean he he called the religious leaders that the kind of the holders of morality of his time you Hypocrites it's like and and I think that's that's part of our being (35:11) real about evil is is calling it out I mean e you know evil is a strong word and um and I think part of the problem of kind of casting people as as evil is that it kind of separates us from them because it's so extreme so maybe in that sense evil is maybe not the right term to be using but um it's very easy to be hypocritical it's actually quite easy to call out hypocrisy as well it's it's harder to walk with those people in real Integrity show by your own life that you know you have some kind of not moral High ground but you have some Integrity to be able to speak it into it um but (35:52) again for me I think the first point is recognizing it um not so much looking for it but but you know being being really hyper aware being very sensitive to the Holy Spirit and saying show me where things are going AR I love the phrase of like and I read it in a book about undoing the activity of God when we see anything that's undoing the activity of God in that scenario it's well this is not the grace of God picking and choosing um you know Jesus says um it means nothing to to pay back the person that your friends with or that's paid you but you know go the extra for those that don't even care (36:30) about you or recognize you you know all all those kind of things um so I've slightly lost the point there but um but yeah the the the the the walking in it and and bringing Grace where there is not Grace I think is yeah would be my my response Dan I know you had a response no I think my response would be like you said walking in it we've got to look at ourselves first and I have to look at it every day how am I going to react in that situation what can I do to perhaps to be different not to be um not even to be putting that person (37:12) down but just to living my life like will said be responsive to the Holy Spirit when you're in that situation what what am I going to say what can I do how can I forgive often do find that that the the crooks of of things isn't it forgiveness it's yeah and and just one more point on that actually that you know this Brokenness of relationship is absolutely a Hallmark of evil I'd say and you see it all through the Bible and you see it now and and it's very easy to have resentment in a relationship which (37:44) can bring that break and then bring anger and unforgiveness and and you know I know friends where they've got three generations of hurt in a family because of an argument back from great great uncle whatever no one can remember what the argument is about but they do not talk to each other it's just like and and that sort of stuff is just evil thrives in that loves that kind of broken relationship so we have to be careful in calling out hypocrisy not to become part of that of like let's work together on maybe doing something better um because I think evil (38:22) would love to cut apart those of Faith who are supposed to be part of the answer to this by bringing that that division someone's posted really um brilliant sort of not really a question answer here so Mark 7:21 says for it is from within out of a person's heart that evil thoughts come sexual immorality theft murder adultery greed malice deceit lewdness Envy slander arrogance and Folly praying Deliver Us from Evil is both a recognition of our need for God's protection and an affirmation of his power to save us through Christ (38:59) Believers can confidently expect Deliverance not necessarily from all the suffering but from the ultimate power of evil over their lives I think it's brilliant answer they they should be doing the talk that one of the um questions that someone posted is why why do we think with fascinated by so much evil especially in movies because it is a good movie seems to have to have evil in and then there the whole other level of of horror as well which is a whole genre and I just wondered when I was thinking about that question is it something about um often are people I think people (39:44) realize as a spiritual element of the world element it's massive you know we Are Spiritual Beings they realize that spiritualness and horror is one way of some way weirdly entering but but God's got this other side of things and I also think I mean horror is one thing isn't it but I also think there's just a lot of movies and TV shows where there's like goodies and baddies and you know I think my 10-year-old son Ben he like loves all the Marvel stuff and it's all like Heroes and evil villains and so we're kind of raised on this stuff from quite a young age aren't we especially little (40:20) boys but everyone and um I do I do sometimes sit back from it and think it's just telling the same story over and over of good and bad this war against evil and good and actually I think it's kind of the aest story it's the Bible story being told and retold and told you know and it might be told by TV companies or Netflix or Hollywood but it's kind of the original Bible story just a new almost like it's it's the only story that we kind of tell almost isn't it it's just hold over and over and I think at some level that story about Good and Evil and that (40:57) Waring between the two is just because it's true and it echoes deep in I think the human soul as well yeah and I think there there's a lot of good in it as you say and and and making that point about action movies wasn't so much to you know say that that's that's wrong but it again it kind of feeds into the yeah I'm I'm not a baddy like that and and you know you can tell by the music and the makeup and everything it's like yeah but I'm I'm not like that and we we kind of divest ourselves of any responsibility of the evil that we see around us and (41:28) that's part of the problem of it but I I remember thinking yeah similar to that question really of what what's the fascination why is it so attractive actually why is evil so attractive um and and I think it's about this power thing I the these are my thoughts and i' never really never really tested them out but um you know Walking with God submitting to God as you take take from one extreme or kind of submitting to evil in a sense this the The Good the goodness is actually harder and and it's it's more selfless and there's something something that evil (42:08) promises have like and it was right there with Adam and Eve it's like if you just eat this apple you get to be like God it's like it's it's a fast track and all the Temptations of Jesus in the wilderness were this fast track to oh everyone will worship you if you throw yourself down at the temple just just just make some bread out the stones you're hungry it's this kind of don't do it the hard way don't do it the kind of walking in a whole life of relationship you could just get a quick fix and I think that's part of the attraction of (42:36) evil it's like I can get power and influence and it doesn't matter yeah and then of course it does absolutely matter and it brings an awful lot of pain but but that that's the kind of that that's hidden and I think this is why evil is actually so attractive yeah and it's it is sometimes subtle as well isn't it like I was thinking about um I was thinking about Ephesians 5 when you were talking as well where it says be wise then how you live like be careful it kind of warns us to be wise and because the days are evil and it and it's like that actually we we need real wisdom (43:12) about what is not good and what is good um I think it does require us to kind of ask God for that discernment quite often yeah Proverbs um says above all else guard your heart for everything you do flows from it and that ging is is questioning not just not qu questioning things that we you read and we see but we've got the perfect answer because we can just say to God I've read this this doesn't sit right that's what God's given us a he's given us conscious for he's given his holy spirit to actually speak directly to us that we can say (43:49) this doesn't sit right what can I do about this what should I do in my heart yeah there's a comment there's a comment here that says praying to Deliver Us from Evil is both a recognition of our need for God's protection and an affirmation of his power to save us I think that's really good three Jesus Christ Believers can confidently expect Deliverance not necessarily from suffering but from the powers of evil in their lives yeah Amen to that whoever posted it yeah another yeah really really so the the question was um just just to go through again (44:43) what those kind of components of evil that I talked about and and you know there's there's probably many more but as I was thinking about different sort of scenarios that either kind of called out as evil or I would consider as as evil uh so the first thing was was the motiv ation and the motivation was this pursuit of power um and you see that on on the personal level and you see that on the kind of the national level or the organizational level or almost always the uh the motivation of evil is to gain that domination over somebody else and (45:15) you you particularly see that in things things like abuse um and particularly where it's domination over someone who is more vulnerable and defenseless so that's that's the motivation the mechanism then of evil is very often this this perverting what's Norm whether that's a kind of the laws put in place or a moral Norm it's trying to twist what is good basically it's it's twisting the the status quo um and and this is the way evil gains its influence and and partly that's because it it kind of I mean you know there's reasons for those things to be in place (45:54) there's reasons we have morality in US society and acceptable behavior in our society because it benefits all and and it's fair and it you know upholds the weak and and all those things there's reasons we have laws um and evil always seeks to kind of find the loophole find the Gap slip through so the mechanism of it is to try and undo that and and and ultimately i' would say it's undoing what God has made yeah undermining it and then the result of evil is this perpetrating pain um it's yeah and and destruction I mean you I was trying to make three PS for the talk (46:31) but um you know pain almost always results from it so so the first bit is it's about power that's the kind of that's what evil is trying to do it does it through twisting and it results normally in pain one um we're sort of coming to the end now but um right at the beginning um someone posted in that one of the baptisms in the Church of England baptism vows it's I renounce evil um and it is that decision that you're you got God's power in you but it's also that decision as well um and if you're in Liverpool so if you're listen to this online but you are in Liverpool then (47:15) there are baptism Services here on the 27th of April so if you've never been to anything like that and you're like what why do people do this what goes on well come along yeah because that's pretty much a visual symbol isn't it of people choosing to die to themselves die to themselves yeah not obviously physically die in the water but it's an image of dying the O dies and the desire to be in control of your own life and be all powerful in yourself and it's that idea of submission to the authority of and lordship of of Christ instead so yeah if (47:53) you are interested definitely come along and see what it's all about um so what have we oh you've already told us what we're what we're doing next week haven't you actually done so yeah we're all up to date so um if you're what I'm about to say uh if you're if you're listening I don't know what you're about to say if listening to us now um online then at the end of this we'll be having um a Meetup so the details come up on the screen they come up at the end of the the live stream um we'd love to just chat chat with you so (48:25) that's not that's live like right now so just wait and meet and um we'll see you next week yeah and also just to say if you've got further thoughts on this subject if you've got questions if you've got some prayer points or maybe there's something you're really struggling with in this whole area in your life then you know do email us drop us a line text us through the week and um yeah we will we will pray for you we will get in touch so yeah um do that as well if you want to carry on the conversation (48:57) um other than that I think we'll say bye and thank you a big thank you to will as well for being here tonight and sharing all your wisdom with us and we'll see you next week take care everyone [Music] [Music]
