Ever wondered why the things we want most aren't always what's best for us? This week, Jenny Mariner continues unpacking Genesis' wisdom on desire and decision-making, revealing how growing up spiritually isn't about having all the answers – it's about learning to want the right things. Through everyday objects and surprising insights from The Karate Kid, Jenny shows us why God's 'no' might actually be the path to our best 'yes'. From dealing with daily choices to life-changing decisions, discover how ancient wisdom speaks directly into our modern struggle between following our hearts and trusting God's guidance.
01Talk notes
Ever stood in the supermarket sweet aisle, paralysed by choice? Jenny Mariner knows that feeling. She once took her five-year-old to choose any chocolate bar he wanted - what should have been a treat ended with him lying on the Co-op floor, screaming.
"Choices can be overwhelming," Jenny reflected as she unpacked this week's message on Genesis 3. And if a simple sweet selection can reduce us to tears, what about the bigger choices we face? The ones that shape our character, our relationships, our very souls? Jenny argues that the ancient story of the forbidden tree isn't about God being mean - it's about learning the most important skill of all: knowing what we should actually want.
02When Wanting Goes Wrong
Before diving into solutions, we need to understand what's really happening when our desires lead us astray. Jenny painted a picture that hits uncomfortably close to home: we see something we want, we convince ourselves we need it more than we need God, and then we take it.
"We get to the point of thinking I need that thing more than I need God," Jenny explained, holding up a plastic apple she'd borrowed from someone's desk. It's probably not happening with actual fruit these days, but the pattern remains unchanged - whether it's approval, success, relationships, or security.
The serpent in Genesis 3 doesn't tempt Eve with something obviously evil. He misrepresents God's character, painting him as withholding rather than generous. "Did God really say you must not eat from any tree?" he asks, twisting God's abundant provision into apparent stinginess. Then comes the lie: "You will not certainly die."
Sound familiar? The whisper that says God's boundaries are about restriction rather than protection. That what you want right now matters more than what God says is best.
03God's Framework for Good Choices
Here's where Jenny's Karate Kid analogy (despite admitting she'd never actually seen the film) becomes brilliant. The student wants to learn karate to fight bullies, but the teacher gets him to wax cars and paint fences. The kid thinks he's just doing chores until he realises those exact movements are the foundation of the karate he needs.
"Adam and Eve need the knowledge of good and evil," Jenny explained, "but they don't get it by just taking it from the tree. They get it by learning when to say no and when to listen to God."
The tree wasn't God being vindictive - it was spiritual wax-on-wax-off. Learning wisdom isn't about taking what we want when we want it. It's about developing the muscle memory of trust, the daily practice of saying "your will be done" even when our desires pull us elsewhere.
Jenny pointed to Jesus in the wilderness, hungry after 40 days of fasting, offered bread by the devil. Unlike Adam and Eve, Jesus chose God's sustaining word over immediate satisfaction. "Food feeds him for a day, but God sustains our lives eternally."
04Making It Real
So how does this ancient wisdom translate to modern life? Jenny got refreshingly honest about her own journey. She shared about a relationship in her student days where she'd pray "God, I just want your will for my life" whilst carefully keeping the option of ending the relationship off the table.
"It's like I was taught you just have to pray something and then it will magically happen," she reflected. "But we've got our own will, haven't we?"
The transformation comes through what Jenny called "dying to self" - not a dramatic one-time event, but daily choices that slowly reshape our desires:
- Getting out of bed to read Scripture instead of scrolling for five more minutes
- Choosing prayer over Netflix when we're tired
- Sometimes fasting to teach our bodies that we don't have to satisfy every desire immediately
- Learning to hear God's voice in the ordinary moments
"Day by day you're just learning how to walk with God," Jenny explained. "Then when you hit that big decision, you're not suddenly going 'help me know your will' - you're already in the habit of walking with God."
05Conversation Street Insights
The Paradox of Choice in Daily Life
When conversation moved to practical application, someone raised the "jam experiment" - a psychology study showing that shoppers bought less jam when offered 32 flavours instead of 6. With thousands of daily choices, how do we apply biblical principles to decisions Scripture doesn't directly address?
"The longer I've been a Christian, the easier I've found those choices," Jenny responded. "God has slowly taught me about how he thinks and who he is." She compared it to marriage - after years with someone, you know whether they'll appreciate broccoli or not.
The key isn't having a biblical rule for every decision, but developing such familiarity with God's character that you naturally align with his heart.
Who Was Weaker - Adam or Eve?
An interesting theological debate emerged about whether Adam or Eve bore more responsibility. Jenny pointed out a disturbing pattern that runs through Genesis: "Passive husbands exposing their wives to harm."
Adam wasn't off working in his shed when Eve encountered the serpent. Scripture makes clear he was "with her." His silence during the temptation, his failure to protect or speak up, his eventual participation - it all points to what Jenny called being "silently complicit."
"Six of one and half a dozen of the other," she concluded, though the pattern of passive male leadership would continue through Abraham and beyond.
06What Really Changes
Jenny's balloon analogy captured something profound about human transformation. She held up a deflated balloon - recognisably a balloon, but "not living its best balloon life." Only when filled does it become what it was designed to be.
"We're all humans, but how do we live as best we possibly can? It's by allowing the Holy Spirit to fill us. This is the balloon being the best that the balloon can be."
The invitation isn't to become something other than human, but to become fully human - the humans we were designed to be when filled with God's Spirit and aligned with his purposes.
07Your Next Steps This Week
Jenny's message calls for practical response, not just intellectual agreement:
Start small with daily surrender - Choose one area where you'll practice saying "your will be done" instead of automatically following your desires.
Develop God-awareness habits - Whether it's morning Scripture reading, conversational prayer throughout the day, or fasting from something that dominates your attention.
Practice healthy self-questioning - When you want something intensely, pause and ask: "Do I need this more than I need God?"
Build Christian community - Surround yourself with people who can help you discern God's voice and hold you accountable to his wisdom.
Remember the bigger picture - As Jenny put it: "The one thing we take from this physical life into the next is our relationship with God."
08The Long Game
Jenny's story about her student relationship revealed something crucial about repentance - the longer we delay making the right choice, the harder it becomes. What starts as a simple "no" to God can develop into patterns that require much more dramatic intervention later.
But here's the hope woven throughout this message: God isn't interested in our perfection, but our participation in relationship with him. The tree in the garden wasn't a trap - it was an invitation to trust. Every choice we face today carries the same invitation.
09Growing Into Who We're Meant To Be
Why did God put that tree in the garden? Same reason the karate teacher made his student wax cars - we learn wisdom not by taking what we want, but by learning when to say yes and when to say no.
"We're not made as robots," Jenny concluded. "We're made for relationship with him."
Growing up really is learning what to want. And what we're meant to want, ultimately, is God himself - his will, his way, his wisdom shaping our desires until what we want aligns with what he wants.
The plastic apple on Jenny's desk was a perfect prop after all. Sometimes the most ordinary objects carry the deepest truths: that every choice we make is a chance to grow up a little more, to want what's truly worth wanting.
Topics in this talk
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(240) Growing Up Is Learning What To Want (Genesis Part 7) - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJlEYWSeSOg
Transcript: (00:00) well good evening welcome to crowd Church uh my name is Matt it's great to be with you uh today let me just get more in the center of the there we go that's better that's me OCD playing it's great to be with you tonight I am hosting with my beautiful wife Shar hello everybody hello hello hello uh welcome to crowd uh today we are talking about growing up is learning what to want apparently Jen is that right what have you called this what is the title so we're talking about making good choices today so uh yes so that's what (00:43) we're going to be talking about Jen's back for part two of her talk uh which she's going to be sharing with us today which is going to be phenomenal so while I'm talking about this did you want to get yourself ready uh Jen again has got props uh which is going to be great so uh yeah that's what we're GNA be talking about so very warm welcome to you do make sure you know what I need to do I need to just get to you guys on YouTube but make sure you say hi in the comments uh let us know where you're watching from be great to find out whilst I just (01:14) join the live stream here oh let's turn that off there we go uh evening Matt evening Miriam happy valentine Sunday to my lovely Sunday night church oh that's sweet isn't it let's extend um Valentine Val's yeah Valentine's week yes we're just talking about earlier about how people extend birthdays to birthday week or birthday month so yeah and so why why would we not do that with Valentine's Day um did you have a nice Valentine's Day I'm asking you this question genuinely curious because I don't I don't actually (01:49) know the answer do you know what I've had sleep since then and uh it seems like a very long time ago I think I probably did can't remember so yes so uh welcome like I say crow do join us in the comments we're on YouTube We're on Facebook and we are on the old Instagram uh so yeah we're going to be getting into uh all kinds of things today but if you have any questions we do this in call com if you're new with us we do this in call com this chair's creaking uh it's the chair honestly um we do this thing called conversation Street uh after the talk which is where you get to ask your questions put them (02:26) in the comments uh or in Pigeon Hall if you guys are in you put them in Pigeon Hole uh if you're in in the building if you're outside the building whatever platform you're watching this on put your questions and uh thoughts and ideas in the comments and we will try and respond to them after Jen's talk we certainly will I will be doing a little bit more talking than I have done so far after this yeah so yeah but I will uh fend off the difficult ones to you probably AIDS in the comments evening Aid uh Dan's in the comments evening (02:57) Dan Dan's also at the back uh so yeah it's great um great SPS are you ready yeah should we jump into it okay so without further Ado we are going to jump over to Jen who is going to do today's talk if you don't know Jen Jen is a legend that's what Jen means it's Greek for absolute Legend um so Jen's going to be sharing tonight with us as we carry on our study through the Book of Genesis um Jen's one of the senior pastors here at Frontline uh so you're going to love it she's awesome here's Jen good evening it is an absolute pleasure to be here yeah my name is Jenny I'm one of the leaders here and I am back for (03:40) part two because two weeks ago I did a talk on Genesis 2 and 3 and there was just so much that I wanted to say and because I get to help put the teaching series together I thought I'm just going to split this over two weeks because there's so much useful stuff here and we are still only in Chapter 3 of Genesis we are going to accelerate a little bit but there is just so much important stuff in these first few chapters of the Bible because this is God introducing himself um and there's just so many things we can learn so I am going to repeat some things to try and make this (04:13) make sense on its own but if you weren't with us a couple of weeks ago if you want to go back and listen to the previous one that would help fill in some gaps so today we are looking at making good choices and I guess I thought I start by thinking about how good we are at choices anyone good at choices we good at making choices I probably the less important the choice the worse I am so like picking a chocolate bar I'll agonize you know a meal in a restaurant I'm not good at that maybe probably more important choices is where my decisive side comes out one of my oldtime parenting low moments I've got (04:51) two kids when my eldest was about five we went to the shop and I was like I know what would be a great idea I'll let him choose whatever sweet or chocolate bar he would like from the selection in this shop aren't I a nice parent it ended with him lying on the floor of Co-op screaming and I was like what have I done wrong this is supposed to be nice but one thing I learned that day is that choices can be overwhelming and although I give my children choices and these these days I kind of try and manage the number of (05:20) options because choices can be overwhelming last time I was speaking um we were looking at desires so we were looking uh mainly in Genesis 2 and we're talking about the fact that if we start what we've already seen from Steve's talk in Genesis 1 is that God is good he's a good god Genesis 2 talks about the world that God puts humans in and how God gives us all of these good things and he says go and eat eat have it it's made for you and that it's totally normal for us to want things that are in the world because we are made beings ourselves we can't sustain (05:57) our own life so it's normal hence my prop sadly I forgot to bring my actual Apple but somebody had a plastic apple on their desk in the office is upstairs so I've stolen a plastic apple as my prop but hence like it's totally normal behavior because we can't sustain our own life we'll see some food like an apple and be like I need that Apple I need to eat that apple to sustain my life that's normal behavior but we can get into a situation where we Elevate made things that are made by God above God himself so we get to the point of thinking I need that thing more than I need God and I mean (06:34) probably not with an apple but with other things in life we can get to the point of thinking I need that more than I need God and then that creates these moments like Adam and Eve at the tree these moments where we're having to decide do I listen to what God's saying to me or do I take the thing that I think I want we're all faced with those kinds of choices especially in a world where we're told that what you want is right that's the narrative all around us isn't it just do what satisfies you and actually that's not what the Bible teaches us so it is a little bit (07:04) confusing if you want to unpack that more go back and listen to the last one that's what the whole last talk is about but what I want to look at today is this thing of making good choices because if you add a little bit of confusion to the story we'll read it in a minute but the story is known as the tree of the knowledge of good and evil or the tree of the knowledge of wisdom and you could argue when Adam and Eve took that fruit from the tree surely they needed wisdom surely that's a thing that they need to have so why did God put that tree there (07:35) that had something that they needed and then tell them they couldn't have it was God just being vindictive was he just demonstrating his power to us maybe God didn't want them to have wisdom but then later in the Bible you get you get this guy called Solomon and he asks God for wisdom and he's praised for asking God for wisdom so what's going on there maybe God is just withholding something from us to prove he's powerful there's load of questions that come to mind about if we're not allowed they weren't allowed the tree why was it put there so (08:05) that's what we want to have a little look at this morning and um when Steve was talking he spoke about the fact that some of us see the Bible as literal history and some of us see the Bible as maybe there being a bit more story or metaphor in it either way I think this is again one of those stories where what we can take from it doesn't change whether you believe this is literal or not I respect both points of view there's lots of intelligent people in both camps but it's interesting that there are multiple layers of meaning in this story one of which is we said last (08:37) time that the name Adam means human so you've got this human there and then the name Eve means living one so basically you've got two people and their names together mean living human which kind of is all of us isn't it if you're a living human then you're like they are in the garden and they have this moment where they're choosing whether to trust God's wisd wisdom or whether to trust their own wisdom which is the type of moment that we experience in life all the time so we're going to read we're going to start from Genesis (09:09) 3:1 it says now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made and he said to the woman did God really say You must not eat from any tree of the garden so straight away the snake is actually misquoting God I'm not even going to get into one as a talking snake that's just another matter but straight so we can yeah I don't anyway um the point is that he's misrepresenting God as we've already said Genesis 2 tells us God says eat eat all of this is yours there's only one thing you're not allowed you're allowed everything else God's provision was abundant but the snake is saying God (09:49) said you mustn't eat from any tree he's presenting God as a god of lack but Eve's not totally soft she corrects a snake and she says we may eat from the trees and the garden but God did say we must not eat from the tree that is in the middle of the garden we must not touch it or we will die you will not certainly die the serpent said to the woman for God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good from Evil so first of all the snake is kind of twisting what God says he's misrepresenting God and then he's outright lying because if we know the (10:26) story we know that once they eat from the tree they do eventually die they don't die immediately but they are going to die eating from the tree is a root to death but instead the snake is painting God as withholding something in Genesis 1 we've learned that God is good that God gives us good things but now by chapter three the snake is saying oh I think God's withholding from you and so we get the same choice in the story do we believe what we've been told about God so far that he is a good god giving (10:56) us good things or we believe that what the snake is suggesting that actually God is withholding something actually there's something that you need that God isn't letting you have so then it says the woman saw the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye and desirable for gaining wisdom and she took some and she ate it and she also gave some to her husband who was with her and he ate it so she chose to trust the snake she chose to go oh actually that thing I think God's holding out on me I think (11:24) that is what I actually need for life she takes it and she choses to take it instead of trusting in God and then it says their eye the eyes of both of them were opened and they realized they were naked so they soed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves it's interesting isn't it they don't die immediately but they have this need to cover themselves they realize their nakedness and one of the many things about that is that when we're naked you're completely seen aren't you you're completely vulnerable you can't hide (11:57) anything about yourself and Adam and Eve could sit see each other in their difference because you had male and female and when you're naked you can see if someone's male or female from a sex birth point of view of you know you can see can't you there's no hiding when someone's naked and it shows us that there is a world where we can live with god with one another in utter vulnerability totally seen in all of our differences in all of our uniqueness but totally safe and yet the moment they don't trust (12:28) God the moment they decide their own wisdom they notice their vulnerability they notice their difference and that's when they need to protect themselves with coverings it's the moment that humans decide to take that power for themselves the moment that humans decide oh I think I know what is good and what is bad I'm going to let my desires motivate what I do that is what makes the world an unsafe place because the next question then well if we're all living according to our own wisdom then what if what is (13:04) good for you is actually bad for me what if like we might not agree on all these things so instead of living by the wisdom of a God who makes this world where we can all live together in total Harmony and vulnerability we're now living by our own wisdom and if your decisions don't line up with my decisions then it doesn't make it safe for me does that sound like the world in which we live right we're not all making decisions that are good for everybody so the moment the humans take that power to decide for themselves is (13:35) the moment when they see their vulnerability and their lack of safety so how do we learn to make better choices how do we learn to not just take what we want it's interesting throughout the whole of the Old Testament that idea of seeing what you want and taking it is not a good idea how do we learn to live differently I think one of the things is that we need to recognize that as humans we're not terribly good at making good choices it's interesting that this story is the introduction of humanity in the Bible you meet God you meet creation you (14:10) meet humans and the first story we discover that we are not terribly good at making Wise Wise choices it's a key thing the Bible is telling us about our Humanity that actually we don't discover this knowledge of Good and Evil by ourselves by going out and taking what we want we need to trust God so at this point right I want to jump to a 1980s cult classic Karate Kid I discovered this morning that I was in a very tiny minority of people that have not actually seen Karate Kid have we seen Karate Kid yeah I didn't realize that I mean I knew it was a cult classic but (14:50) well I need to go home and watch this film clearly I have not seen it but I I wouldn't even say I've actively avoided it I just haven't seen it but but but I'm aware of the the thing that I'm going to use to make my point right because it's a cult classic isn't it so despite having never seen it I am aware of wax on wax off and paint the fence right so in the story the kid is getting bullied at school he wants to learn karate doesn't he so he can beat up the the bullies and he goes to the karate teacher and he's like I want to learn karate and they got the guy gets him to clean the car wax on wax off and paint (15:28) the fence and do some other things and the kids's like I'm not here to just do your chores around the house I'm here to learn karate and then they realizes later in the film that those exact movements that he's been learning are the basis of the karate that he needs so basically the point is he learns what he needs to learn but not in the way he expects to learn it yeah I think the same thing is happening here at the tree Adam and Eve need the knowledge of Good and Evil but they don't get it by just (15:56) taking it from the tree they get the knowledge of Good and Evil by actually learning when to say no and when to listen to God and learning we said last time about the Apple the Apple has goodness everything God makes is good so anything in the world you can look at and see the goodness in it but is it all for us to take and eat the story is teaching us to develop a healthy amount of self-questioning right and it does continue you get further in Genesis um Genesis 4 you get Cain who was angry at his brother and Cain and (16:35) God says to Cain he says if you do what is right you will be accepted but if you do not do what is right sin is crouching at your door it desires to have you and you must rule over it the point there is that God said to Cain don't kill your brother you've got a choice you don't have to go out and do that yes that temptation is there but you don't have to do it but Cain kills his brother any anyway and then by the time you get to Cain's descendants they're all going around killing each other and it's not a happy it's violent and destructive the Bible shows us again (17:09) and again that humans don't make good choices we need a savior which skip us to the latter part of the Bible skips us to Jesus who hopefully you are familiar with the story of Jesus because we've only just had Christmas so hopefully it's there in your brain and you get Jesus who is God as human and one of the first stories of Jesus as an adult he goes into the Wilderness and he's fasted for 40 days and it's reasonable to assume at that point I think that Jesus is hungry and the Devil comes to him and says if you are the Son of God tell these stones to become bread and Jesus answered it is (17:49) written a man shall not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of God so hopefully you can see a parallel here that Jesus is getting a choice moment just like Adam and Eve it's even a food choice but Adam and Eve follow their desire they go oh yeah that's what I need I want that Jesus who is full of the Holy Spirit rejects the food although there is nothing wrong with food but he knows in that moment he's churned in with God he's listening to what God's saying and he knows in that moment it's not the food he needs food feeds him for a day (18:26) but God will feed sustains Our Lives eternally and that's what Jesus knows he needs so Jesus is modeling to us a way of living tuned in with God and it continues the next chapter is um The Sermon on the Mount which is quite a famous bit of Jesus's teaching it's the bits like turn the other cheek and blessed are the meek and there's a whole load of stuff in there that one of the kind of big debates about the Bible is could every anybody actually live the way that Jesus describes is it possible to live that way but one cool thing I've (19:03) discovered recently which I think is one of those things that proves that God had a hand in right in the Bible because some there's just some cool stuff and how it's written you're like no human did that but in the Greek this whole section of scripture right the center of it is this thing called The Lord's Prayer and the very center line of that is the line that says your will be done so you've got this question of can anybody live this way and right in the very middle of it you've got Jesus praying to God your will be done the (19:35) word in Greek is thma apparently which is translated as will or wishes or desire so Jesus is saying God wants you to live this way and you don't do it by you can't do it just through your own choices the only way you can do it is by praying for God's will to be done by seeking what God's will is not our own desire and you see the same pattern there verses in Proverbs in Psalms that talk about um things like take Delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart loads of people love just taking (20:11) the last bit of that one God will give you the desires of your heart but it starts with take Delight in the Lord and the verse before talks about trusting God and the verse after talks about trusting in God so it's like this wedding together of learning to say God make your desires my desires and that's the root to satisfaction which I think takes us right back to this choice at the tree and it takes back to what Paul who wrote many of the letters in the Old Testament talks about as dying to self because you can't if you start reading the gospels and the letters you can't (20:46) get away from this idea that following Jesus is not something you can opt in and out of it's not a bolt on or a choice you can have when it suits and when you don't following Jesus totally transforms us over time not because being a Christian is about behavior modification I think sometimes we get confused on that and we think it it is but we are learning to walk with God listening to him and over time that actually transforms our desires in Galatians 2 Paul talks about being crucified with Christ so that he no longer lives but Christ lives in him saying that he's laying his whole self (21:25) down to allow room for God to guide him as he makes his choices or if you've been around Frontline a while you'll know that um the guy who used to lead the church a guy called John one of his sayings was about how that the the the we as we get transformed the main work of the transformation is the holy spirit in us it's the holy spirit that transforms us but the effort involved on the part of us is that we need to surrender there is an effort in surrendering Our Lives to God and not just doing what we want if I reflect back on my early days (22:00) in church I really wanted to live for God i' tried doing other things and I came back to God and I was like God I want to live for you but I was mainly taught that I did that by just praying God I want to live for you and it's a great prayer I don't have any problem with that prayer but I think it wasn't it wasn't the whole story in terms of actually learning how to live for God like you could still end up in conversations in your small group where it's like like yeah I messed up I made the same mistake again it's not getting any better or I remember um I when I was (22:37) a student there was this guy that I was dating and somewhere deep in there I kind of knew that the relationship wasn't great but I remember praying and being like God I just want your will for my life but on in reflection the thought of ending the relationship was not one of the options that was open for God you know and it took a while of praying like yeah God I just want your will for my life before I kind of figured out that actually God's will was that I needed to end the relationship there was nothing wrong with the guy like it was great but I (23:09) just knew but it it's it's like I was taught you just have to pray something and then it will just happen you know you'll just magically know what God wants and do what God wants and it just doesn't work like that I don't think because we've got our own we've got our own will haven't we and so I guess what I've learned over time and I think what Paul's talking about again and again in New Testament is that there is a learning to lay your life down a learning how to listen to God and it's done day by day God doesn't just change your mind overnight it's things like at this time (23:45) of year and it's cold and you wake up in the morning you're like I just want to stay in bed for five more minutes but I'm going to get out of bed and I'm going to get my Bible and I'm going to read the word of God because it's good for me it's food for my soul or I want to just sit and watch TV but I'm actually going to spend some time praying first because it's in prayer that I learn to hear the voice of God or it might be I like eating but sometimes I'm going to fast because I'm teaching my body that I don't have to just I I (24:16) can deny myself sometimes and that's not actually bad for me and I think all of those things are like the wax on wax off you know like day by day you're just learning how to walk with God how to hear God's voice and then when you hit that thing it's you're not just suddenly going oh I've not been talking to you at all God but help me know your will when you hit that thing you actually are in a habit of Walking with God understanding his voice and it helps you make a good decision and as I come into land I'm aware of the time I've gone on a little (24:50) bit but as I come into land I just want to share this analogy because I love a good analogy right and this is a balloon and it's kind of like we humans are like these balloons I think right this is a balloon it's not not a balloon is it but it's not a balloon at its best like if I only ever have a balloon like this this balloon is not living its best balloon life right to live its best balloon life it needs to be filled doesn't it see I blew this up earlier to make this easier and the go I think God does (25:30) the same to us like this is what the holy spirit is longing to do to us like we're all humans but how do we live as best we possibly can as humans in this world it's by allowing the Holy Spirit to fill us and it's when the Holy Spirit fills us that we actually live our best human life this is the balloon being the best that the balloon can be and I think that's the invitation to us in this scripture God wants us to learn wisdom he wants us to know the knowledge of Good and Evil but we learn that actually by allowing the Holy Spirit to fill us by laying ourselves down and saying okay (26:15) God it's not just about me and what I want I understand it's about day by day learning to listen to you so why did God put the tree there it's a wax on wax off moment people God is teaching us something we're not made to just be we're not made as robots we're made for relationship with him and that's what God is teaching Adam and Eve and that's what God is still teaching us today amen that's me now I'm going to tie the balloon otherwise I'm going to make rude noises again there we go with the practice earlier she did make lots of rude noises yeah it was it was all very hush (27:07) hush all very hush hush but anyway great talk love that what was your top takeaway write it in the comments we're going to get into conversation Street um let's start with the first question here on pigeon hole how would our lives look if the Apple was never eaten um and the fruit was never consumed uh or were humans not ready to eat it at the time that they did how would our lives look if the Apple was never eaten was the fruit never to be consumed or were humans not ready to eat it at the time that they did (27:44) Jen and I can give you a part answer to that question that I think this is one of those stories it's like if they hadn't eaten it somebody else would have you know that there is something of learning to walk with God that is part of what it means to be human and if you believe as we do that in the end times we will fulfill the potential we were originally created for that we will rule and reign with God I do believe that this life on Earth we are learning things that we will carry into the next life I know that's a bit of a big that's a bit of a big thought isn't it but that is genuinely what I (28:22) believe so I'm like I think um I some I've heard some people some very intelligent people say that when we take say that Eden was perfect in some respects it wasn't in the sense that Adam and Eve had stuff to learn like they weren't the ultimate total finished human project they had stuff to learn as we all do so I think somebody would have eaten it yeah probably me to be fair if if it had got down round to it i' would have I would have no doubt uh eaten that yeah and I I think the Bible says that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God so even though it might not have been that you know an apple (29:00) scenario for all of us or a fruit whatever it was that actually we've kind of all made the same decision at some point yeah we got into this actually in the comments was it an apple or was it not it was fruit that's all we know it was fruit but we we genuinely refer to it as an apple which you've stolen off someone's desk yeah I mean I just it looks appealing doesn't it and the Bible tells us of whatever fruit it was it looked appealing yeah y I think as well there's that element of I think throughout the Bible we see that God wants us to be people who walk by faith (29:33) who are walking trusting him and it's very easy to go oh yeah I trust you but unless you're actually tested in that do you really know and I I think all of us have to face that point of am I actually going to trust God or not and there all these choices are part of that you know learning to live in that relationship with him trusting what he says rather than just going with whatever we feel like so the one of the questions then is if you've got um what we affectionately call in the modern world the Paradox of choice right um have you heard this phrase the Paradox of choice uh where there was a (30:18) science experiment done and do you know about the jam experiment love the gem experiment do you know about the gem experiment so there was a there was a an experiment done by psychologists where they put amam in the aisle of a supermarket right on a table and so I think they started out with some like six flavors you know the sort of the usual Blackberry raspberry strawberry jams and then they monitored how many of those jams they actually sold um at the checkout I may be butchering it slightly but the point comes through uh the next week they didn't do it with six Gams they they put (30:54) 32 jams on the table and they included all kinds of exotic flavors like pineapple and mango or whatever as well as the um the blackbery and and the the strawbery and all that sort of stuff and so they they did this experiment and they wanted to see by giving people more choice would they sell more Jam because you had more to choose from you're like oh I didn't want the strawberry one but I'll take the pineapple and mango the reality of it was that um by giving consumers more choice they actually bought less right so they sold less Jam by giving out more choice and it's this thing called the Paradox (31:30) of choice given then that we Face thousands of these and it is literally thousands isn't every day we make thousands of choices every day um the Bible does not cover for example which gem I should buy from the supermarket it does not say thou shalt buy strawberry gem although you probably should um how do we how do we take the principles from scripture how do you do it how do you do it and make it you know apply to Everyday Life to all of these micro decisions that we make you're looking at me so I'll go I think that's why I was talking about the (32:14) daily reading scripture daily praying daily spending time in Christian Community with other people because I think you do only learn it is that slow transforming I think the longer I've been a Christian the easier I found those choices because God has just slowly taught me stuff about how he thinks and who he is and what he wants for me um so I think that is really helpful I do think that there are choices where God doesn't mind lots and lots of choices where God doesn't mind but it's knowing that you're walking in (32:45) a way that is surrendered like the relationship I was talking about to begin with it wasn't I wasn't really listening to God I am glad that I reached a point where I was like he God I am open to you having an opinion here yeah you know I think we can make certain choices and be like God I am not talking to you about this and I guess the invitation is to talk to him about every part of your life yeah I I like the analogy of the whole spending time um because thinking about with our marriage obviously I've (33:16) spent a lot of time with Matt so I can um often if someone says oh will he like this or will he like this it's like I know what you're like like do not feed him broccoli it's going to go down well stay yes um and I think it's the same with God we get to know the more time we spend with him the more time we really dig into the his word and say God what do you say about each area of my life what do you say about marriage what do you say about friendship what you say about money and we so we've got that yeah over time actually just knowing (33:49) what God is saying in general and then we've got the Holy Spirit on a more like bringing it to life in those situ ations um yeah I've kind of peted out with that one yeah know I think that's I think that's very good and I think I think it's all right isn't it that um fundamentally the more you walk with God the more you get to know him the more you get to know him the it it doesn't it doesn't automatically mean you're going to make better decisions but at least you know what the right decisions are right um and I think um I (34:22) think this is why I'm I'm I love this phrase that I've heard people say the the longer I walk with God the more aware of my sin I become right and I think that's so true because actually you become more aware of your desires and I think you intentionally if you do something that is not right is much more intentional the longer you have walked with God because you know this is definitely not right right um it's it's it it just is what it is so I think but when we understand the principles of scripture we can apply them so whilst the Bible doesn't (34:59) necessarily talk about what we should or shouldn't watch on TV there are principles that we can take from scripture and apply them and go well that is probably something I shouldn't watch whereas that okay we'll go with that do I mean like the Karate Kid I still can't believe you've not seen that have you not seen the new one either the one with um Jackie Chan no someone told me this morning there's a new one maybe I'll go out maybe I'll watch both there's four of them Jack's watched Cobra Kai so maybe you know should just (35:28) binge on the whole thing on the whole YouTube thing that's been so anyway the Sidetrack that has been such an amazingly cheesy but brilliant show just me reminiscing about my whole childhood watching Cobra Kai it's been great uh it has been great to kind of finish an idea that you started with there in terms of the more you walk with God the more you're aware of your sin I think in it's in those little um where the Holy Spirit just tweaks you and you're just like oh yeah my heart's really not right on this (35:58) I think there's also that the more you grow with God the more you experience his amazing love and there's a great Tim Keller quote which I can't quite remember which is like it's really good it is fabulous it's along the lines of we are far more sinful than we realize but we are like amazingly more loved and valuable than we can even imagine and it's holding those two intention sometimes which I think comes back to the cross the central part of the Christian faith whereas our sin is so bad that Jesus like God himself had (36:33) to come and pay the penalty for that yeah but we're so loved that he wanted to do that it was like his uh free will his pleasure to do that yeah pleasure in the not yeah maybe not quite the right word but so Elias has written in the comments God knew we would talking about the fruit um again God knew we would eat it if nobody ate it no body would sin and then we wouldn't have had Jesus dying for us but now we come to God willingly not by force that's my opinion on it um they had free will to choose whether or not they would (37:10) eat uh of the fruits so uh thank you for your comment Alias uh Miriam says I love apple crumble but I love Jesus more which I I think well fair play uh uh I think we're talking about Je if we're talking J which one which goes on first a scone Jam or cream and so we've just started a whole conversation uh just around the jam thing one question that I thought was an interesting question bit of a theological debate here who was weaker Adam or Eve because you you read the story and Eve tempted the woman uh but scripture (37:50) is really clear in fact I put the verses in on the comments on YouTube uh scripture is really clear Adam was right there with her it wasn't like men like to read it as like Adam was you know way off in the garden working in his shed when Eve did all this and it wasn't true he was right there with her so um who who it's that's an interesting question was anybody weaker was it Adam Eve what do you think well I think it's another theme actually that you see in Genesis is unfortunately passive husbands exposing their wives to harm yeah I mean (38:28) Abraham does it he doesn't protect his wife adequately there's other I think it in some respects it's another um it is another example of sin isn't it for one of a better word when actually he's passively there not engaging in this conversation which is no better and I'm not saying it was his responsibility to stop her but like it we we all have a responsibility for ourselves don't we and I would say for those around us and he and he could have said something but he didn't say anything and then he went (39:00) along with it so I think six of one and half a dozen of the other is my view I think it's a fair comment I I I think um this idea of passive husbands um not protecting their wives I mean I think you're totally right Jen and I think if you're watching this if I if I was to say what if you say what are some of the key issues as Church faces I would say passive husbands um and passive dads right men not living the call of God on their lives and you see that in the garden and you see Adam sitting there not protecting his wife um we're going to get into the whole Abraham thing as well in a few weeks go (39:38) we're few weeks time we're going to cover that story a little bit um but I think it's a really important point so yeah I I'd say the same thing in fact I wrote in the comments Adam i' put more of the blame on Adam because I can have you got anything you want to throw into this um I think I'm with Jen on the six of one half dozen of the other in that the end result it doesn't necessarily matter I don't think who was weaker because the end result is that both sinned so I don't know I'm open to being wrong on that but he's not exactly (40:10) there going wait a minute let's trust what God said yeah he's definitely very silently complicit yeah in this whole thing isn't he he is very complicit and again I mean fast forward into Abraham one of the things that we see with the story of Abraham is he tries to pass his wife off as his sister she ends up in the king's harim right I mean Hello H and God has said well you know you're going to be the father of many nations so I mean he is propably self-sabotaging here and he's causing his wife Sarah to pay a lot (40:50) of the penalty and he does this he doesn't just do it once he does it twice and God has to rescue Sarah both times and it's the most extraordinary thing um Elias says here that sin by Omission versus Sin by transgression both wrong just different yeah and I mean he does also eat it so I don't think it's just I don't think it's just sin by a mission I think yes Elias and he also eats it one of the things jenet you were talking about I thought was interesting this chair is really squeaky I don't know if the mic's picking that up um (41:27) it's genuinely the chair um one of the things that you talked about was um how Adam and Eve were naked in the garden right and it wasn't until sin entered the world that actually this became a problem and so they then tried to cover their uh their shame in effect and I think it's interesting actually when we when we go down a path of making decisions that aren't right before God one of the tales or one of the tals of that is the the fact that we try to cover up things that we are ashamed of right um so if you watch stuff that you (42:06) should not be watching you try and cover that up you'll do it in secret or you'll do it through a private browser do you I mean there's once you once you know you are starting to cover things there's a fundamental problem isn't there and I think that's one of the Tells that you're not making good decisions is because you cannot um do it in an open environment you cannot be open about it and you're starting to cover things up don't know if you any any thoughts on this yeah I'd agree with that and I think the good news of Jesus has the good antidote to this I think without if (42:43) if we just look at our culture today where in a sense everyone's saying you do you and you know you make up your own truth but in another sense there's kind of a crowd sense of what is right and if you step out of line you are out um so I think to then to be able to stay in favor with people if we've got desires or things that kind of go against that we either we have to keep quiet about it or pretend it's not there or put on this veneer to everybody else so that we're accepted whereas I think with the Gospel of Jesus he's like God (43:23) knows what we're like inside anyway um and where Jen said that we can that there's safety in God because although he says these things are wrong he doesn't just cancel us it's like we can come to him and we get forgiveness and we get Grace so we don't have to I know we don't always do this that we still in the church we can there's still can be a lot of pretend but if we really understand the gospel we don't need to pretend to be better than we are because we can bring all of that rubbish to God and he forgives us and he cleans us and he sorts it out and he transforms us um yeah can't remember the original (44:04) question now but that was great uh that was great the other thing that jenu talked about was I love this idea that the phrase your will be done being Central um to both Jesus's teaching on prayer but also the whole Sermon on the Mount thing um your will be done and I think I loved your analogy when you're praying to God about your I'm assuming you're not talking about Jack when you're talking about the the relationship no I'm not talking about the person I'm now married to okay good I I figured you weren't but that I like that God do your will your will be (44:45) done but this over here is not an option for your will I just want to clarify in case there's any ambiguity or doubt your will is as long as it's in this bucket this this container um and I I think that's a really interesting point because so often we we have a a thing in our head which says I have to pray your will be done because you know you can't escape in scripture can you this concept this idea but the idea of putting some kind of boundary on that I think is quite interesting yeah I think that is one of the paws of trust that God's taking us on isn't it like I remember you know yes (45:25) I am now married to Jack and I got married in my 20s but I do remember really distinctly God saying to me like I need you to trust me that if you live your whole life single that it will be better than this guy that there's nothing wrong with him but I'm just telling you no you know and I remember making that trust choice and yeah okay I didn't have to live that out over years and years and years it wasn't that long until I met Jack but I still remember just really feeling like that's what God was saying to me I need you to trust me (45:56) right now even though you don't know what's next yeah and I think that that does happen for all of us with different things and I think it's an important thing God is relational we have kept coming back to this haven't we and God wants a relationship with us and he wants us to trust him yeah and I think that one of the core messages of the New Testament is this idea of repentance um what Christians call repentance the ability repentance means to turn around it means to go a different way you're in effect saying I'm living (46:27) according to my will my desires and I'm going to try and live according to your will your desires that's what repentance is all about the thing that I've noticed is the longer you put that off the harder that decision becomes or the harder it is to repent if that makes sense so if you'd have carried on with that relationship longer and longer and longer it it gets harder and harder and harder to make the right call if that makes sense um and so I think repentance as defined in scripture this sort of turning around is always best (47:03) done when you realize you need to do that right and and not putting it off and making the decision harder and harder and harder yeah and um there is that whole we come back to Faith as well because sometimes you can make the decision that you think is right before God and things look like they're getting worse and um one of my favorite characters in the Bible is Joseph of technicolored Dream Coat Fame um and I love that story because he's given these promises from God about like amazing promises that and he tells his brothers and they get really annoyed with him I can I can imagine it being a (47:40) bit annoying actually you can be like well you're all going to bow down to me and they're just like yeah I don't need to know that right now um but then things just go really wrong well it looks like is going wrong and he goes through hard times and it goes from bad to worse and then to bad and then back to worse and and this lasts for years but he was actually as far as I'm aware in in the will of God and God was doing stuff behind the scene and so that does take a lot of trust and faith doesn't it when when things are just hard and you're just like but God I thought you were (48:14) saying this um so that's where it is by faith and not by sight and not by expecting that if we follow God then everything is just going to be great and everything's really easy I think in some ways he does make things easier in that when we line up with the way we're designed to live that does bring a certain ease about it but then in another sense it can make things more difficult yeah totally um very good conversation ladies uh anything closing from E Jen on this anything else you wanted to say they only thought that what Sharon was saying is just triggered is I am increasingly (48:54) convinced that the one thing that we take from this physical life into the next is our relationship with God and so even in those moments you're like what on Earth is happening God is actually most interested in developing his relationship with us and I think even when it yeah even when it looks like it ain't great you can push into God you can find out more about him and that is something I increasingly just think lasts for eternity yeah yeah yeah and i' I'd say that whilst I think God is interested in his will being done he not always that (49:30) interested in your will being done right I just want to point that out there um he's I don't think if I read the B the way I read the Bible at the moment let me preface this the way I understand scripture at the moment is God's primary interest is not our comfort um I think his primary interest is his kingdom and building his kingdom is not always an easy Road it's not always plain Sail it's not always I can pray for a bigger house and I get the bigger house um I think there are twists and there are turns and there is going to be a point where you have to come and lay down some decisions which (50:09) you are you are convinced are good but you just sense God is saying no and lay those at his feet at the altar and go God this is this is you I had to do that with a career I had to do that with all kinds of things we've I've not always got it right but I can look back and go he's not necessarily interested in my comfort but it's great to be with him on the journey and I can trust him with it amen anything else from um yeah I think there's this whole thing of maturity as well isn't there with um I wouldn't know about (50:44) that I just think with our kids one of the key things you teach them to become more mature is being able to say yes to the right things and no to the wrong things and put boundaries in place and I I was looking at loads of scriptures earlier to do with desire and it's like according to the Bible some of our desires are just wrong and evil and we just need to say no to them others of them are actually good and god-given but God still puts boundaries with within those places and so part of the maturity (51:15) is Walking with God to be able to say no to certain things in order to say yes to other things and say yes to what he says and yes I just like that analogy I think of growing up good very good and on that bombshell we will end conversation street I'll just like that phrase oh well I'm sorry I'll be in trouble later apparently Sharon doesn't likee the phrase if you didn't hear that through the microphone uh but thank you for joining us in conversation streak coming up next week do you know what we have next week do you remember oh you did tell me I can't (51:47) remember and he was round our house ear will will speaking about evil but I don't know who's hosting uh yeah I can't remember who's hosting well you'll find out when you turn up but is talking about evil we're carrying on the conversation in Genesis what is evil what is that all about uh we're going to spend a little bit of time looking at that because I think it's such an important topic if God is good explain to me evil and I think quite often it's easier to believe that evil exists than God exists for a lot of people a lot of time um and so but what is it all about (52:21) where did it come from how does it affect us all that sort of stuff we're going to get into that next week with the very clever Dr will sowith um so do come join us for that if you haven't done so already make sure you like subscribe and you'll get the notifications when we go live of course you can sign up to the email as well if you get the we'll send an email out every week with all the notes and updates and stuff so be great to see you on that email list as well but if you have any further questions or comments (52:49) from tonight's talk you can just leave them in the comments and hopefully we will someone will get back to you uh if you have got any questions um but it's been a phenomenal conversation before we sign off just to let you know if you are watching online and you would like to meet us uh uh zo have you put the link in the in the comments uh in the comments on YouTube is a link um it should also be in the comments on Facebook it won't be in the comments on Instagram I don't think um but you can go to the website go. crowd. Church SL (53:22) MeetMe uh and we'll be on Google Hangouts only for about 5 or 10 minutes come say how's it be great to meet you um but yeah I think anything else for me no anything else for you no everyone's shaking their head uh that's it from all of us thank you so much for joining us have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world uh we'll see you next time bye for now [Music] [Music]
