When adversity strikes, our natural instinct is to escape as quickly as possible. But what if we're missing the point entirely? Through Paul's letter to the Philippians \- written from prison \- we discover how to find purpose in pain, build resilience through community, and trust God with outcomes we can't control. Real stories from our community show how transformed perspectives make hardship meaningful, leading to strength, compassion, and deeper faith.
01Talk notes
Have you ever wondered why some people seem to thrive despite facing enormous challenges whilst others crumble at the first sign of trouble? It's not that they don't feel pain or that they're somehow superhuman, the difference often lies in their perspective on adversity itself.
This Sunday at Crowd Church, we explored this very question through the lens of Paul's letter to the Philippians - a man who managed to find joy whilst literally chained in a Roman prison. His secret wasn't avoiding hardship but discovering what could be accomplished through it.
02The Real Issue About Adversity
Here's where we often go wrong in difficult times: we think the goal is to escape as quickly as possible. We pray for God to remove the problem, change our circumstances, or at least make it hurt less. But what if we're missing the point entirely?
Paul writes from prison - not exactly where you'd expect to find a letter about joy. Yet Philippians overflows with encouragement and hope. How is this possible? Because Paul understood something profound: adversity isn't always the enemy of our purpose; sometimes it's the vehicle for it.
As we heard in the service: "Just because you've royally screwed up does not mean God has abandoned you, because he won't do that." This isn't positive thinking or denial about real pain. It's recognition that God specialises in working through our worst moments, not just our best ones.
03God's Framework for Resilience
Throughout scripture, we see a consistent pattern: God builds resilience not by removing difficulty, but by meeting us within it. This framework has three key elements:
Purpose in the Process Paul could have focused on the injustice of his imprisonment, the physical discomfort, or the uncertainty of his future. Instead, he chose to see how his chains were advancing the gospel. His perspective shift didn't eliminate the hardship, but it transformed its meaning. When we can identify purpose in our pain, it becomes bearable in ways we never expected.
Community in Crisis The Philippian church wasn't just recipients of Paul's letter; they were partners in his mission. Even from prison, Paul remained connected to a community that supported and encouraged him. Isolation intensifies suffering, but community has a way of distributing the load. As one community member shared: "Community is really important... it's how God helps us get through things."
Trust in the Unknown Perhaps most challenging of all, resilience requires trusting God with outcomes we can't control. Paul didn't know if he'd be released or executed, but he knew his life had meaning regardless. This isn't passive resignation - it's active faith that believes God can work through any circumstance.
04How This Works in Real Life
At Work When Everything Goes Wrong Mark's story resonated with many of us. When his job situation became impossible and colleagues turned hostile, he could have responded with bitterness or despair. Instead, he began asking what God might be teaching him through the experience. This didn't make the situation pleasant, but it gave him a framework for enduring it with grace. Eventually, he realised the adversity was preparing him for leadership roles he couldn't have imagined.
In Relationships That Disappoint One community member shared about a friendship that ended painfully. Rather than letting bitterness take root, they chose to examine what the relationship had taught them about themselves and others. The loss still hurt, but it became a catalyst for emotional growth and deeper empathy for others experiencing similar pain.
During Health Challenges Another person spoke about chronic illness changing their entire life trajectory. What could have been purely devastating became an opportunity to discover God's faithfulness in new ways. They learned to find joy in smaller moments and developed compassion for others struggling with invisible challenges.
In Financial Pressure Economic hardship has a way of stripping away everything we thought defined us. One family shared how losing their home taught them the difference between what they needed and what they wanted. The process was painful, but it led to freedom from materialism and a deeper appreciation for community support.
05What Changed for People
The testimonies we heard weren't about miraculous escapes from difficulty. They were about transformed perspectives that made hardship meaningful. People discovered:
- Strength they didn't know they possessed
- Compassion for others they previously couldn't understand
- Clarity about what truly matters in life
- Deeper faith that could weather storms
- Communities of support they'd never accessed before
One person put it perfectly: "I wouldn't choose to go through it again, but I wouldn't trade what I learned for anything." This captures the paradox of growth through adversity - we don't seek suffering, but we can be grateful for what emerges from it.
06Your Next Step This Week
Here are practical ways to begin building resilience:
Reframe Your Current Challenge Instead of asking "Why is this happening to me?" try asking "What might God want to accomplish through this?" It's not about finding easy answers but shifting from victim mentality to purposeful endurance.
Connect with Community Don't try to weather storms alone. Reach out to people who can pray with you, offer practical help, or simply listen without trying to fix everything. Isolation makes everything harder than it needs to be.
Look for Small Evidences of Growth Resilience builds gradually. Notice moments when you respond to stress with more grace than before, or when you can offer comfort to others because of your own experience. These are signs that adversity is doing its refining work.
Share Your Story Honestly As Matt reminded us, our testimonies don't have to be perfect success stories. Sometimes the most powerful thing we can share is that we're still in the middle of the struggle but haven't lost hope. This gives others permission to be real about their own challenges.
Practice Gratitude in Small Things When everything feels overwhelming, find three specific things you can thank God for each day. This isn't about pretending problems don't exist but about training your eyes to see goodness even in difficult seasons.
07The Bigger Picture
Here's what we often miss: God isn't trying to make our lives easy; He's trying to make us strong. Like a loving parent who allows their child to struggle with a difficult task because they know the child will grow through it, God permits challenges that develop our character and deepen our faith.
This doesn't mean God causes every hardship, but it does mean He can work through any situation for our good and His glory. The same God who worked through Paul's prison chains can work through whatever challenges you're facing today.
08A Question Worth Considering
What if the very thing that's currently causing you the most stress could become the source of your greatest growth? What if God wants to develop something in you that can only emerge through pressure?
This isn't about embracing suffering for its own sake or pretending that hardship doesn't hurt. It's about believing that no experience is wasted when we allow God to work through it. Your current struggle might be exactly what someone else needs to hear about in six months or six years.
Because here's the truth we discovered together: resilience isn't about being strong enough to handle anything alone. It's about being connected to a God who specialises in bringing beauty from ashes, purpose from pain, and joy from the most unlikely circumstances.
You don't have to be grateful for your trials, but you can be hopeful about what God might accomplish through them. And that hope can make all the difference in how you face tomorrow.
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(00:00) oh we are live oh okay sorry everybody Welcome to CR I didn't see the video on there for those of you who don't know me my name is Matt and I'm normally technically a little bit more proficient uh but it's great to be with you this evening welcome to crowd Church my name is Matt next to me is the very Beauty beautiful let me just turn that volume down the very beautiful Ellie hello hello hello who's obviously uh if you're a regular crowd you will recognize Ellie um so yeah we are looking today at something called joy and adversity aren't we we are indeed yes you've heard (00:37) the talk right I have what did you think twice twice yes prepared although it really may not seem like it it's not you this is me H so yeah we've got Mark buenon talking with us Ellie's heard the talk twice so was it good yeah it was really good I really liked it okay good few yeah that's a very very good news so Nichola is in the comments hey Nicola if you are watching on the live stream do say hello in the comments uh we would love to hear from you let us know where you're watching from and also as we go through the evening any questions any comments from (01:10) what's Happening then please do put them in the comments and we will respond to those as well and that goes for the same everybody here in person uh you can also write your questions and comments so yeah if this is your first time with us at crowd for a while you'll think you're in a slightly different location Matt we are we're actually in person and online so we Behind These cameras are some very beautiful P faces some very beautiful people and there's will sowi love you too will uh who you'll recognize from the crowd live stream I can make jokes at Will's expense because (01:45) you know he'll do the same for me um but yeah very good to be with you so do write in the comments anything uh any questions any thoughts coming up have I missed anything I don't think so I probably have I'm not the to ask I Sharon over there have I missed anything babe no okay good uh so right today we are second in the series on the book of Philippians so last week Jen kicked us off uh doing an introduction if you haven't seen that you can find it on the YouTube channel do check it out uh but we are in the second episode of (02:22) this series I think there's nine in total so we're going to start off with a bit of a scripture reading ell's going to read for us the passage that Mark is going to talk from um and then we will get straight into Mark is that right Dan Awesome okay so here's Ellie go for it hello um I'm going to be reading Philippians um 1 12- 26 um I'm reading from the NLT um let me get comfy so um I want you to know my dear brothers and sisters that everything that has happened to me here has helped to spread the good news for everyone (03:04) here including the whole Palace guards know that I am in Chains because of Christ and because of my imprisonment most of the Believers here have gained confidence and boldly speak God's message without fear it's true that some are preaching out of jealousy and rivalry but others preach about Christ with pure motives they preach because they love me for they know I have been appointed to defend the good news those others those others that do not have pure motives as they preach about Christ they preach with selfish ambition not sincerely intending to make my chains (03:38) more painful to me but that doesn't matter whether their motives are false or Genuine the message about Christ is being preached either way so I rejoice and I will continue to Rejoice for I know that as you uh pray for me with the and the spirit of Jesus Christ helps me this will lead me to my Deliverance for I fully expect and hope that I will never be ashamed that I will continue to be bold for Christ as I have been in the past and I trust that my life will bring honor to Christ whether I live or die for to me living means living for Christ (04:15) and dying is even better but I if I live I can do no uh I can do more fruitful work for Christ so I really don't know which is better I'm torn between the two desires I long to go and be with Christ which would make which would be far better for me but for your sake it is better that I continue to live knowing this I convicted that I will remain alive so I can continue to help all of you grow and experience the joy of your faith and when I come to you again you will have even more reason to take pride (04:45) in Jesus Christ because of what he is doing through me man I love Paul that's great um yeah there we go that's Philippians 1 to 12 112 to 26 lovely that was me doing the signal [Music] [Music] [Music] well hello my name is mar Buchanan I'm a friend of Matt Edmonson and he's asked me to speak at crowd church today so I'm a visiting speaker but I'm not actually visiting I'm doing it on video but isn't technology wonderful we may never meet (05:56) in the flesh but we can connect around God's word and we know that we're serving the same Lord and building the same Kingdom aren't we what a fantastic thing that is now I've been given the topic of joy in adversity which seems crazy right how can there be joy in adversity isn't adversity something that we should avoid at all costs well in worldly terms that's true you should avoid it at all costs if you can trouble is it has a habit of finding you anyway doesn't it but Kingdom thinking is completely opposite to worldly (06:31) thinking even in Kingdom thinking though I don't think we're being asked to enjoy pain to enjoy suffering but just to give away my conclusion right at the beginning my belief is that we find joy in adversity because we see what God can achieve through it that's where the joy comes from by seeing the results and interestingly the passage that's being selected for today comes from a letter that the Apostle Paul wrote to the fairly new church in Philippi so we call it the book of Philippians it's chapter 1 verses 12 to 26 that we're going to consider and in (07:12) this Paul starts to map out his thinking about his imprisonment he's become a thorn in the flesh of the Roman authorities and he's been thrown into a pretty hardcore jail that is actually protected by the Imperial God the priorantioxidant hardened men who don't really go in for emotions or flimflam and he's surrounded by people like that who are guarding him and of course everybody else in the prison is also there having transgressed the law in some way so that's not a pushover audience either but listen to what Paul says about what's happened to him I want you to know brothers that (07:52) what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel so that it's become known throughout the whole Imperial God and to all the rest that my imprisonment is for Christ and most of the brothers having become confident in the Lord by my imprisonment are much more bold to speak the word without fear so here's Paul he's been making these epic Journeys to encourage and strengthen and establish the Church of Jesus Christ in the known world and it's all come to a screaming halt because he's been thrown in jail and I'm sure he didn't say oh that's (08:32) great thank you I'm in prison I'm sure it seemed like a disaster it seemed like a a bad thing that had happened to him but he's serving God anyway despite his circumstances and in this he's able to say that what's happened to him has actually Advanced the gospel because the world is terrified of suffering the world is afraid of pain nobody wants to be a failure nobody wants to go through disaster but when they see us as followers of Jesus go through those things but triumphantly that's a whole other story and the word of Our Testimony can't be argued with our (09:15) testimony is one of the most powerful tools we have in our toolkit when it comes to building the kingdom of God come and see what Jesus has done for me let me tell you about how the Lord Jesus helped me through my difficult circumstances everybody resonates to that don't they and it's not only the Imperial God who been moved by watching Paul live out his faith under duress but his fellow prisoners also he says having become confident in the Lord by my imprisonment are much more bold to speak the word without fear so they've seen Paul under pressure and that's strengthen their (09:54) faith because they're saying well if God can help him in that way God can help me in that same way can't and that's the beauty of other people seeing us handle adversity it shows them the reality of our faith now does that mean that we're all happy when things go wrong of course it doesn't but we find joy in the adversity that comes our way because we find God in that and we also find out what God can do with our adversity probably the most difficult thing that's ever happened to me was following a divorce (10:29) my two very very small daughters were taken 500 miles away to a completely different country in Europe and I knew that at that age they would just forget me if I didn't hang on to them but hanging on to them was going to be incredibly difficult and very expensive so through a series of Miracles I was able to change jobs and work in the Consulting industry where you get paid a lot of money for not working every day that's how I afforded it and then I did 500 plus segments with EasyJet backwards and forwards to Europe over the years to (11:02) spend time with my girls now was that fun no would that money have been able to do other things of course it would but the result of that difficulty was that God did things that I would never have dreamt possible that I would have never imagined that he could do and he built a relationship between me and my girls which still blows my mind now getting up at 5:00 in the morning to jump on a plane and then sit for 6 hours in the airport while they finish school and then dashing to get them take them back to England or to a hotel in where they were living somewhere that wasn't (11:37) fun it was exhausting but the result because God was in it has been incredible so God is an absolute master of taking hold of adversity and using it for his purposes perhaps that's why James who writes another one of the books in the New Testament is able to say in James chapter 1 veres 2 to 4 consider it pure joy my brothers and sisters whenever you face Trials of many kinds because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete not lacking anything so he's saying consider it Joy (12:22) because of what adversity does adversity makes us lean hard into the Lord Jesus and that's when we find out quite how amazing he is it's when he's our only hope that we realize what a hope he is it's when he's the only strength in the situation that we realize how strong he is and we also realize that perseverance is possible and that perseverance brings about incredible fruit so I would love it if God could somehow re-engineer the mechanics of the universe so that all the good stuff happened when life is going easy (13:00) but right now it seems to be wired the other way around that adversity makes us hang on to God because we know that our own strength isn't really an option and that's when we discover quite who God is and it turns out that he's absolutely amazing so in a way our first response to adversity shouldn't be our usual which is help how do I get out of here as quick as possible it should be Lord what is it that you're after here what are you trying to do what's my role in this what do you want of me now I've (13:38) been walking with the Lord for 60 years and it's still taken me most of that time to get to the point where that's anywhere near my first instinct but I have learned that that is the quickest way out of adversity is to immediately surrender to God in it and to say Lord I trust that you have purpose in this now here's the interesting thing the situation during which I discovered the most about who the Lord is and his incredible capacity to bring tremendous things out of adversity was all my own fault so it wasn't something that happened because I was nobly serving the (14:21) lord it happened because I was stupid and because I was sinful and because I did wrong so it was my own fault and even my own voice in my head was saying well you brought this on yourself mate so stop winging you just have to suck it up but let me say this carefully because of course our Behavior does matter but once you're in a situation of adversity it doesn't really matter much why you're in there it only matters that you are in there and it only really matters that God is in there and he is in there with us so just because you've royally (14:59) screwed up does not mean God has abandoned you because he won't do that so whether it's a failing of mine a failing of somebody else whether somebody's betrayed me whether an accident has happened whether circumstances tricked me and I just made a bad judgment call for whatever reason I'm in adversity God is in that adversity with me and we need to hold on to that because we're really good at deselecting ourselves from God's help and his blessing because we think badly of ourselves so we assume he does too but he loves us with an irrevocable love (15:37) you can't stop God loving you you can't make God give up on you it's just not possible so whatever the reason for the difficulty you're facing You are not alone you're in there and God is in there and that's actually all we need so after years and years and years of failure and repeated stupidity I have learned that actually yielding to God is what opens up my circumstances submitting to God and saying okay Lord what would you have me do right now is what often triggers the turnround that's what he's waiting for and if I learn to keep reminding myself (16:20) of the great things that have happened every other time I've been in adversity that's where the joy comes from that enables me then to endure that situation initially and to come through it eventually Jesus himself is an example of this in the book of Hebrews chapter 12:2 it says fixing our eyes on Jesus the Pioneer and the perfector of faith for the joy set before him he endured the cross scorning its shame and sat down at the right hand of the Throne of God so Jesus for the joy set before him endured the cross it was probably his worst moment it was his most painful (17:06) moment his most shameful moment his most embarrassing and humiliating moment but for the joy set before him he endured it all and this is the person who is the Pioneer and perfector of faith that we're talking about isn't it and what was the joy then that Jesus used to enable him to enjoy the cross it's you and me full and complete and mature and Christlike that is the joy that was before him and our adversities are part of the process by which we become more Christlike because suffering and difficulty and pain and adversity and failure they challenge our flesh don't (17:53) they they our flesh feels stupid our flesh feels angry our flesh feels it's all over and feels like a complete failure and I may as well just give up but then the work of the Lord in our lives through that adversity strengthens us and teaches us to take our self-esteem from what he says about us not what our circumstances say about us for one thing so do I like adversity no would I avoid it if I could yes but I have seen that adversity is often God's best tool to achieve his purposes for me but as Paul says also for the people around him (18:35) his fellow prisoners were moved by his testimony as he went through his incarceration with God's help the petorian god having seen so much misery and disaster and awful things suddenly realized actually this man is in prison because of the Lord he serves not because of his own wrongdoing and that's got them asking questions why would you do this for this God of yours what will this God of yours do for us so his testimony brought about change in all the people who were around him and that was a source of joy for Paul so what can we do with this then if (19:21) we find joy in adversity because we see what God can achieve through it then reading stories like this one in the book of Philip iians helps build our faith and helps us see adversity differently listening to testimonies of fellow Believers about how God has brought them through horrible circumstances into a wonderful place can also help us see that adversity is a positive thing when God is in it so I wonder what adversity you're facing perhaps just take a moment and think okay what are the hard things that you're facing I say the number one is (20:00) stop beating yourself up stop seeing it as primarily your own doing because if you're following the Lord he's in charge of your circumstances and he has at least allowed this adversity to come your way because he knows what he can do with it and if you happen to be listening to this and you're not a follower of Jesus I know this must sound like absolute Madness to you but I can tell you from repeating experience this is how God works so maybe the smart thing for you to do is to maybe hand your life over to the Lord Jesus first (20:38) because that will transform your experience of your circumstances like absolutely nothing else can and then let's start to ask those questions Lord what do you want of me what is it that you're looking for how can I serve you how can I submit to your will in this set of circumstances how can I be the hands and feet of Jesus to the people who are going through these circumstances with me how can I be a tool in your hand Lord Jesus to bring about a Godly outcome from this difficult circumstance and when we feel that we're not enough when we feel that we just don't have the resources whether that's (21:19) mental or physical or any other way to handle this let's ask the Lord to give us the resources that we need in fact why don't we do that right now and I'll finish with this but let's just pray Lord Jesus I just want to lift up any brother or sister of mine who's in difficult circumstances right now Lord I pray that you'll show them yourself in those circumstances and Lord give them the courage to reach out and put their hand in your hand and walk through these circumstances your way not their own and Lord I pray that you will bless them (21:56) Lord I pray that you will teach them I pray that you'll encourage them I pray that you'll Empower them I pray that you'll reveal yourself to them and that what seems like a disaster will turn into an absolute Triumph that they'll know you better they'll experience you in all your power and your love and that they will walk through the other side of the Valley of the shadow of death different because they've met you in a powerful way in their difficult circumstances and give them hope to keep them on the track while all of this (22:29) happens and we ask that in the name of Jesus Amen well it's been absolutely fantastic to be with you and we just yeah hope that that's been helpful to you and that you can use it somehow but never give up and never doubt God is with you whatever your circumstances may be God bless welcome back love Mark so good so good so good I've known mark for a few years now I met him because he was bought in what was he was saying about Consulting role he get paid you get paid a lot of money for not a lot of work yes (23:12) something like that right and um give me a slice of that pie yeah fortunately I have some of that pie which is quite nice um but so Mark and I sort of travel in the same circles a little bit and he and I have worked for um a PLC we've both been on the same board for the company at different times um and we connected uh Mark and I uh sort of a friend who was on the board when I was there and on the board when he was there connected us we just hit it off straight away he's such a legend and you should hear his stories in fact can I just say before we get into (23:51) conversation Street if you haven't done so already go listen to his story on the podcast um there's a wats of story Story episode with Mark what's a story is um a podcast we do where people tell their stories Mark was talking about that in the you know talking about testimony we'll come to it but he tells his story right and you should hear some of the stuff he talks about he used to work with Derek Prince Ministries he um smuggled Bibles into the Middle East almost died on several occasions I mean just miraculous stuff that was happening and but he also talks a bit more about his divorce and what happened there and (24:29) uh to quote him and his stupidity um but he owns it J and he and and God's done some incredible things through him so do check out that if you enjoyed what Mark had to say but Mark you're a legend thank you for coming on anyway should we dive into the questions yes you've got pages of notes I have which is awesome so the first question on my screen how can we build resilience through God I find resilience to be quite challenging go that's a big question I think it's just keeping going isn't it it's it's challenge after challenge after challenge after Challenge and just going through it (25:11) that's how you build it and just not yeah stopping it's an interesting one isn't it I the the analogy which is really obvious to me may or may not be helpful to you is the one where you lift weights right so you get stronger because in effect that's resilience um you you are lifting heavier and heavier weights and you get stronger and stronger and I think in a society that tries to hide away from adversity in a society that tries to hide away from Challenge in a society I guess that wants everything on a silver plate my advice is put yourself in difficult (25:47) situations I remember hearing a great quote Once by a guy called Peter Daniels Australian guy he said if you have no problems in life you should get on your knees you should pray and say God do you not trust me anymore I thought it was a really powerful prayer very dangerous prayer I'm not going to lie um but I think there's something about putting yourself in situations that stretch you that stretch who you are as a person that builds that resilience and not shying away from them um because I mean the bottom line is these things are painful right and we want to get out of it as quickly as (26:23) possible why would you not right um and so but I love what Mark was saying about finding God's God's sort of presence and plan in the midst of the trial and the adversity I think is is the key yes I agree yeah yeah I've got another bit I could add now but I feel I might save it for later okay just I'll mention it now we'll come back to it I also think a big part and I think this will come up as a theme as we go through it um the importance of community in resilience um I think probably a lot of us will have testimonies of the only reason well one of the big reasons that we've got through stuff is because we've had (27:06) people around us encouraging us to like you know keep going with the hard thing whatever the hard thing is rather than people saying oh no oh that's very difficult you should stop doing that um it's so much more um uh lifegiving and Powerful when someone says oh my goodness that's really hard I believe you can do it keep going um and I think there's a few things as we go through I Community um is really important yeah it's a very good point I mean the whole purpose of church is to encourage one another um and again I think this has (27:37) become quite a western thing you know you go to church and you kind of like well I didn't enjoy the worship yeah well I didn't think the preacher was very good and it and if we're not careful we fall into that mindset which says church has to meet my yeah my needs right um it's all about what I get out of it and I think church is more about what you give than what you get out of it and so my question has always been in situations like that when was the last time you went to church to encourage somebody like on the way to church in the morning I'm thinking Lord I don't (28:10) know who but whoever I meet can I encourage them if if there's a word if there's something give me something to encourage somebody and having that desire when you're in the church service or in your community or small groups whatever that is even online just encouraging people and saying God how can I help people encourage people I think it just changes your whole perspective yeah especially where resilience is concerned because if it gets hard and church is all about you you'll leave because of the pressure (28:39) um which I I we can get into that a little bit more um anyway but good point any more you want to add on that no I'll do for now you sure yep okay so let's move on are we to experience Joy all the time or are there some seasons of Despair grief trouble where Joy is Round the Corner but not here yet thoughts on that and will wrote by the way in response to this because you know Will's Legend uh being real on the diversity of Life scenarios is so important instead of using all our energy and resources to change it I think is an interesting (29:19) comment yes yeah well I think the um the whole talk was about you know the fact that Joy isn't there all the time isn't it so that's um obviously we all really want that to happen all the time but then we just be like jelly wouldn't we we'd just be so like floppy and I don't know if we were just happy all the time we we wouldn't build resilience I you said with like the the muscle analogy yeah you know if you don't ever lift the weights then you're just going to be floppy aren't you yeah and it's the same with our characters we'll just be floppy people or wet soggy blankets but happy (29:51) ones happy wet soggy [Laughter] blankets well what do you think to that I just don't know write your thoughts in the comments um sorry should have thought that one three more I don't know if there's a better analogy than that uh wet soggy blankets happy wet I think there's also this thing isn't there that Joy isn't happiness we say this in church a lot that Joy doesn't necessarily mean happiness um I think happiness is a consequence of Joy I think you can't be joyful and miserable all the time but I think you can be joyful and miserable at the same time some of the time if that makes sense I think so you follow me (30:36) yeah yeah so the Bible says happy is he whose God is the Lord right so we know the Bible talks about happiness but we know that joy and happiness are different and happiness is based on what I see feel touch right now it's very it's very emotional based it's very um circumstantial whereas joy that deep abiding joy that Mark talked about I think is not always based on feeling it's just based on the knowledge that actually whatever happens Jesus is in control right and that he is Lord and that I can trust him and there's a joy that comes with that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm happy yeah it just means (31:22) that I can have a joy that at the end of the day he's got me does that make sense it's a much better answer [Laughter] yeah rather than being a wet soggy blank yeah so I hope that I think it's a really interesting question though um because I think it fun you know are we joyful all the time how do you measure Joy right what's your measurement what's your how do you do that right how do how do you know if you're a joyful person see you laters oh okay someone's asleeping running for a train um um how do you (31:59) measure Joy that's a really interesting question I don't know if you've ever thought about it I haven't actually into love just thought about it don't think I have I'm trying to think of times when I can picture myself as very joyful and times I can picture myself as a little bit joyful it's usually more more or less dancing involved and a good sign I didn't that's I like that how do you measure Joy by how much dancing I'm doing right now it's a it's an interesting question um if uh perseverance is possible how do you develop perseverance I think that's a (32:30) similar question to the whole resilience thing um is it if it is true that God is or is it true that God is with us if it is our fault or problem I guess the question here is if I'm in a difficult situation because I'm the one that messed up right is it true that God's with us in there or does or does God just go you're mess you clean it up not that one um I suppose it's I mean obviously the answer is like God's with us all the time but it's harder sometimes to see that when you know that you've just done (33:10) something so stupid I think um Mark lud is that didn't he was saying you know that all of the things that God has met him in most deeply has been his fault um things that he has caused um and I think yeah it's harder harder to acknowledge sometimes when you've when you're the one who's messed up and you've created this huge problem for yourself and you don't really have anyone to blame um and yeah I guess that's maybe more poignant recognizing that God is there with you in that because he he's seen that you've (33:42) been a massive Wally um and he's just he's there anyway yeah um so yes he is there I I I totally agree I think it's um it's a really interesting question I think the hardest thing actually when you're the one that's messed up is I don't think it's I don't think it's God's willingness to get involved and help you I think it's our willingness to give God the space to get involved and help us because we're so angry with ourselves yeah or ashamed as well like it's not even just anger as it it's when you when you know that you're the one who's messed up then I think a huge blocker for a lot of people definitely (34:19) for myself as acknowledging oh this is my fault and feeling Shame about that I think it's interesting isn't it because there are times when our Behavior causes consequences so I think that God Is With Us in things but I don't think he Spurs us from the consequences all the time right yeah so Mark talked about this how he had to get on the plane at 5:00 in the morning travel to Holland I think it was to see his daughters well that was a consequence of the divorce was the separation yeah and God was with him in (34:54) that and helped him in that but he he was if I can put it this way he was delivered through something rather than delivered out of something yeah and I think there are there are times when we have to go through consequences of our own behavior but that doesn't mean that God's not in it with us does that make sense absolutely it does y so how are we doing for time we're doing good loving this uh God didn't fix it but helped me through it these testimonies are powerful so Mark was talking about that why do we focus more often on when God (35:33) fixes these things it's a really good question I think that's because we want things to be fixed don't we just we want to be happy and at ease um and obviously when something's really painful you don't want it to you don't want it to be there do you want it you want it to disappear very quickly um and so when there I suppose It's Tricky isn't it because there are when people do share testimon of God removing that pain or removing like whatever the the the thing is um sometimes there are kind of miraculous interventions where those (36:07) things are taken away um and it's almost harder sometimes if you're in the middle of your own challenges or whatever's going on and you hear a testimony of of God just pulling someone out of that and you think oh gosh why isn't that why isn't that happen to me and I thought the um the comment at the end oh where's my where's my notes um yes the the challenge of recognizing that God is allowing hard things to happen um which is always a fun one to think about isn't it um but I I liked that um in in thinking about that I was recognizing my (36:44) my initial response to it was like angry and it often is whenever whenever I think about that and whenever I think about you know job or someone like that in the Bible where um God's clearly just being like yes have all of your family die s yeah I mean obviously he's not he's not that chill about it but um and angry is my first my first response but um quite quickly what settles in after that initial anger that something that feels really unjust is recognizing that I'm feeling that because I believe that I believe in God and I believe all the (37:17) things that come with um believing in God which is knowing that he is all powerful and trustworthy and loving and kind and gentle um and so if I believe in God and if I believe that he is allowing those things to happen I also kind of have to believe that um that there is as um Mark was saying there's um a reason that God is doing this or there is a way that God can see um goodness through it um and you kind of can't really believe one without the other and I thought that was a a nice um a nice way for him to conclude the talk really um even though it is a really hard and challenging bit and then kind (37:56) of sweeps back around to the community side of it again of like oh that's why we all need to be in community we need to be loving and knowing each other well because it is really hard um and that's how God helps us get through those things as well as by putting good people around us um and being good people for other people to you can't remember what the first question was sorry I gone on a bit B but well the question God didn't fix it but helped me through it was Mark's testimonies and the the question was these testimonies are powerful why do we focus more often on when God fixes (38:28) these things I think as I think if you're a it's a really interesting one isn't it because if you speak at church right um you tell if you just it's really good to talk about the promises of God it's really good to talk about the Miracles of God and we want them we want people's Stories We want people to stand up and talk about how they got prayer and they got healed or um you know Somebody Prayed and this changed in their lives because I think as as Christians I almost wonder if we have to defend his (39:01) reputation a little bit right and so we tell we cherry-pick some of the good stories because it talks about the Miracles of God and they're great yeah don't get me wrong I love to hear them I love to experience them uh not going to lie um but I think I've mentioned this before on the live stream the people I find the most inspiring in life are the people that go through horrendous stuff but are still faithful to God and press into him in so many ways because God's good ultimately they might not see it they might not understand it but they press into God (39:42) and they become the sweetest most loveliest people and it's and again I just wonder if it's a cultural thing we like to talk about God fixing things because we want it fixed like you say yeah um I I'm aware right if you read a Christian book especially like an autobiography you know you read any book on someone like Smith Wigglesworth who you know really interesting guy amazing miracles in his ministry you probably wouldn't let him in your church if I'm honest right now because just you wouldn't cope with someone like Smith Wigglesworth and (40:18) we read those books and we read the stories and we go God I would love to see that um but what the book doesn't tell you about are the 80 Days in between those events happening where life was hard life was boring yeah he suffered with massive hemorrhoid I mean all kinds of issues going on do you I mean but the books don't talk about that we talk about the good bits and I think sometimes we compare our lives with those books that are just talking about mountaintops and I think we judge Our Lives by that and say well (40:51) therefore if I'm suffering God is not with me or God has not answered my prayer or I have a lack of faith um or something somewhere is not right and it's not always the case no yeah I I agree I agree we should talk far more about all the things that go wrong um yeah it's very powerful hearing people's testimonies of um just just getting through the the mundane sufferings yeah you know um is ultimately very encouraging yeah absolutely uh our testimony is a powerful tool how do you tell your testimony well oh I I don't think I'm very good at that (41:34) um I think you know just being honest isn't it I think that's what that's the key to it um because when you as we've just said when you kind of beef it up and make it all about like the really good things or the really big things um as you know that might be encouraging for some people but actually people just want to hear the honest the honest truth of how hard things have been and how um God has made a difference and yeah so I think that's that's how you do Tes simply and honestly and regularly simply honestly and regular I couldn't sum it up better myself I like that because again you're (42:14) right aren't you that just being straight just being honest this is where I see my life right now yeah rather than trying to protect God's reputation yeah um I think you know he's he survived so far yeah without my protecting his reputation I figure he'll make it through the rest of time right and I I think that's almost more appealing now in in the kind of the society that we're in at the moment that's so very big on like big solves big fixes so someone to come in and be like oh this is actually really hard and this is how God makes this impact um just not kind of being (42:51) all um singing and dancing about it yeah um people pay attention more I think yeah yeah very good very good I think you I think you're totally right how do you tell your testimony well I think like you say just tell it tell it straight tell it honestly and if you're struggling to say this is kind of where I'm at but I know that God's going to get me I think I always have hope um in your testimony but Paul talks about this he says always be ready to was it Paul that said always be ready to have an answer for your faith um and I (43:24) think always it's a really interesting statement this J you I mean to think about what your faith means in the context of current culture and not being able to say I think everyone should believe because of x y and Zed but saying I believe because yeah of x y and Zed y um and I think that's a big difference because I don't think people can argue with your story and I don't think well they can they can tell you that you're wrong not quite sure how well that actually works but do you mean in effect it is my story um and and I find you (43:59) know the there was a story in the in the Bible isn't there of of the guy who uh I think this the lame guy by the temple Peter and John the disciples go up they grab him by the hand he gets miraculously healed starts running around woohoo y um and the religious leaders call him aside and it's like what happened is like I don't know those guys just did this and they tried to talk him out of it but it's like I don't go talk to those guys right I just don't know and it's like the other one I all I can tell you is I once was blind but now I see right yeah and that's the most powerful story I don't know I was like (44:36) that but now I'm like this I don't necessarily can explain all of that I can't necessarily put it in theological terms but what I can do is just tell you what I've experienced yeah yeah and I think that's a really powerful testimony yeah I really agree yeah awesome anything else you want to say that's in your notes that we've not covered yet a just Community again it's circled circled it's really important about modeling Behavior as well ja's really happy with you right now three times I said it you didn't even tell me (45:06) to um yeah I I just wrote quickly about like um modeling behavior and how important that is in terms of um older Generations uh being able to express like uh living their lives you know yeah um and showing that their um their lives are good because of their constant returning to their trust in God and I've noticed that a lot over the last year of looking up at older Generations who have done that and thinking me is that you are peaceful because of this and you are gentle because of this and you are um joyful because of this and it's really it's (45:42) really really helped me to be able to look at that and want to model my behavior off them and it's because we're in community with people who are different to us and that's really important so there we go well said well said Jack's very happy like I say he's very very happy uh NCA wrote in the comment she said um because Mark talked about how our self-esteem comes from what he about what God says about us not our situation and Nicholas said yes that's a recurring head slap for to remember that I thought that was quite funny yeah I like that dark yeah of course is our esteem comes from God (46:16) listen I know there's some new questions come in I know there's um more comments that we've not had chance to get uh which I'm deeply sorry for uh but we are out of time in fact we're slightly over but it's a really I I appreciate this is we talk about this a lot on crowd it's quite a deep conversation that actually um I appreciate it's not going to get covered in 45 minutes but it's good to talk about it that actually there is joy and adversity when we can just trust God with the adversity that we are in we can (46:49) find Joy uh in that situation so thank you everybody for joining us joining us in person you're all beautiful people and thank you for join joining us online you're beautiful as well uh next week do you know what's happening next week I'm not told you I'll be impressed if you do my standard trick asking what's happening next week uh so next week we have the delightful Peter fton yeah talking about living a life worthy of the Gospel Philippians part three we are carrying on our journey through the gospels uh through the gospels through (47:23) the book of Philippians we did Mark this why just stuck in my head we did Mark for like over a year and a half or something it was crazy how long we were in that gospel anyway part three coming up next week with Pete Frankton you are going to want to join us for that uh if you're online make sure you hit the notification the like the follow if you're listening to the podcast subscribe to the um I must said subscribe to the show it's not a show is it it's it's certainly not it's definitely not a show uh subscribe uh do (47:52) stay connected with us um but we will be back next week thank you so much for joining us us have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world but that's from Ellie goodbye and from me goodbye bye for now bye [Music] [Music] [Music]
