Service & Sacrifice with Andy Kettle

[00:00:00]

Welcome

Matt Edmundson: Well a very warm welcome to Crowd Church, great to have you with us. My name is Matt Edmundson and beside me is the beautiful, talented Claire. How we doing? You need that microphone, love.

Claire Glare: First time here, yeah. All learning.

Matt Edmundson: It's not your first time at Crowd, Claire.

Claire Glare: Well, no, but I think I've had a microphone shoved in my face before. Yeah, yeah, that's true. You can't, you can't. Yeah, yeah. I can't fiddle about with them. You actually have to

Matt Edmundson: hold them. Yeah, yeah. So, a very warm welcome to you. We are live streaming from the Frontline Centre, so if you do watch this and you're in Liverpool, do come down and join us on a Sunday evening, 6.

30. We do a little bit of worship before we go live, don't we?

Claire Glare: It was amazing. It was really wonderful. Oscar,

Matt Edmundson: Sam, legends. Uh, yeah, so do come join us for worship, it'd be great to see you, but a very warm welcome to you, especially if this is your first time with us, uh, it's great to have you. Do reach out to us, do connect with us, you can do that, the information will come up on the screen hopefully at some point, uh, I think it's been on already, but you can find us at www.

crowd. church, [00:01:00] on social media, at Crowd Church, and all of those things, and of course, as you're with us tonight, do write any Hellos, comments, questions, and all that sort of stuff in the comments below the video, especially if you're on YouTube. I still need to get Facebook up. That's what I need to do.

I'll do that when we do the talk. But yes.

Claire Glare: Multitasking, well done.

Matt Edmundson: Something like that. I'm not very good at multitasking. Um, but today is Remembrance Sunday.

Claire Glare: It is. You've got your poppy on. Did you make that poppy? I didn't. A lovely friend made it. Very good. Um, promptly forgot that she'd made it for me, but it was nice.

I was pleased about it.

Matt Edmundson: I've got my little pin.

Claire Glare: Yeah, all good.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, the back fell off it earlier and it stabbed me in the chest and so that was a bit painful. A

Claire Glare: good, a good reminder of Remembrance Sunday.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, to be fair, there's definitely people who had worse, which is who we remember on a Sunday. That was a good segue, Claire, well done.

Yeah,

Claire Glare: thanks for that. That's why

Matt Edmundson: I'm here. So, yeah, so we, uh, we celebrate a wrong, we [00:02:00] remember, commemorate, that's a better word. I'm glad you're here. Uh, commemorate Remembrance Sunday here in the UK and around the Commonwealth. Um, what do they call it in the States?

Claire Glare: Don't know.

Matt Edmundson: I can't remember, there's a name for it in the States.

If you're from

Claire Glare: the States, tell us.

Matt Edmundson: Does anybody know? No. Is it, it's um, No. Memorial Day. Yeah, they call it Memorial Day.

Claire Glare: And is it today?

Matt Edmundson: Or is it another day? No, I'm not sure. I think it's a different day. I think it's a similar sort of time of the year, though, I think. Anyway, it's that kind of thing where we remember those who have gone before us, um, and, well, practically given the ultimate sacrifice, haven't they?

Um, and laid their, laid down their lives, came out of World War I.

Andy Kettle: Yes. We

Matt Edmundson: carried it off in World War II and now there's obviously tens of thousands of people who are protecting our countries and our nations around the world which we are very thankful for. Yeah. And there's a lot of conflicts going on.

Claire Glare: Yeah. Still, too many.

Praying for Peace - Remembrance Sunday

Matt Edmundson: Still way too many. And so, what was it, Pete, we were talking about this before we went live, Pete [00:03:00] Gregg from 24 7 Prayer was telling us how to pray.

Claire Glare: So, I, I, and I'd read, yeah, so I think it was for pastors and leaders of the church around in those conflict countries. And then was it for the people who were kind of in, in, in the countries and then,

Matt Edmundson: peacemakers, peacemakers.

The three Ps.

Claire Glare: Yes.

Matt Edmundson: Yes. The three Ps.

Claire Glare: Yeah, we love a good, uh,

Matt Edmundson: alliteration. Yes. Nick Harding will be proud. Um, but yeah, I think it's, uh, you know, wherever you are in the world, um, it's always good to pray for those people groups, I think, those people that have been affected by conflict, the peacemakers, um, that are trying to bring peace.

Some of them are trying to bring peace, you know, not getting political, which is another P. Um, and obviously the pastors and the churches in those areas can do a lot of good stuff as well. So we pray for them.

Andy Kettle: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: And I think he gave a fourth P off there, which was paramedics, so for the medics staff as well.

So, uh, yes, we can pray for those people. Nicola's in the comments. Hi, [00:04:00] Nicola. It is Memorial Day, and so, go me. Well done. Well done. Anyway, what we're going to do now, a little bit different, a little bit unusual for crowd, what we're going to do is we are, if you're interested, Here in the room, we're gonna stand.

If you're watching this online, then, and you're able to do, we're gonna stand. We are gonna play a short video which contains the last post. So, I don't know why I'm looking at you, because you don't know.

Claire Glare: I don't know, but I'm nodding. I'm intrigued. You're encouraging me to go. Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: yeah, go with it, yeah. So, it's, it's got the last post in there.

There is a minute's silence. Now, I appreciate what you're doing. Traditionally, we do this at 11 o'clock, but given that it is 5 past 7 in the evening, uh, and, you know, it's just, it's good to do it anyway, isn't it, regardless of the time. So, there is a minute's silence in there, then once that short video clip has finished, we're going to go straight into the talk where Andy Kettle is making his maiden voyage.

He's first time at Crowd speaking. I'm

Claire Glare: really looking [00:05:00] forward to hearing what Andy's got to say. Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: and he, when I said to Andy, do you want to speak at Crowd, because Andy is married to Anna, who is a very regular here on Crowd, one of the leaders here, and I said to Andy, do you want to speak? He's like, can I do Remembrance Sunday?

He was super keen, so he's talking about service and sacrifice, and it tied in really well with the scriptures from Philippines Philippines.

Claire Glare: Philippines. It could have been the Philippines if Paul had travelled that far 2, 000 years ago. I'm sure he'd have gone to the Philippines if he could.

Matt Edmundson: He'd probably never left once he got there.

Staying. So, Philippines, yes, we've been working our way through the Book of Philippians. Nothing to do with the Philippines, I just want to point that out. It's the church at Philippi, which is in?

Claire Glare: Turkey.

Matt Edmundson: Turkey. Modern day Turkey? Yeah. Yeah, you sounded convinced.

Claire Glare: I'm pretty convinced. The borders probably were a bit different.

Geographical knowledge here.

Matt Edmundson: So anyway, let's, um, get into [00:06:00] this. So we're going to play this video. We're going to stand here Um, at Frontline. Uh, is that good to go? Give me a thumbs up, Zoe. Tech Girl is on the stage as well. Uh, so, right, we're gonna stand, we're gonna play this video, and then the talk, and then we'll be back for Conversation Street.

Do write your questions, comments, and all that stuff as we go along.[00:07:00] [00:08:00] [00:09:00]

Talk With Andy Kettle

Andy Kettle: Hello, good evening. It's great to see all of you virtually. I'd like to thank Crowd Church for inviting me to speak today. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Andy. Hello. I'm going to be looking at a [00:10:00] passage from the book of Philippians, namely Timothy and Epaphroditus. I've had to Google that, the pronunciation.

I think I got it right. If I do bodge it up during the course of my talk, then I do apologize. I will try my best. It's a bit of a tongue twister. However, let's have a look at the passage now. Timothy and Epaphroditus. I hope in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy to you soon, so that I too may be cheered by news of you.

For I have no one like him who will be genuinely concerned for your welfare. For they all seek their own interests, not those of Jesus Christ. But you know Timothy's proven worth, how, as a son with a father, he has served with me in the Gospel. I hope therefore to send him just as soon as I see how it will go with me, and I trust in the Lord that shortly I myself will come also.

[00:11:00] I have thought it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and fellow worker, and fellow soldier, and your messenger and minister to my need, for he has been longing for you all, and has been distressed because you heard that he was ill. Indeed he was ill, near to death, but God had mercy on him, and not only on him, but but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.

I am the more eager to send him. Therefore that you may rejoice at seeing him again, and that I may be less anxious. So receive him and the Lord with all joy and honour such men, for he nearly died for the work of Christ, risking his life to complete what was lacking in your service to me. So the Book of Philippians is a letter written by the Apostle Paul intended for [00:12:00] them.

And this passage essentially is about the letter itself getting delivered. Now keeping in mind how insanely dangerous it was at that time for Christians, we can Paul was currently in prison, and so for anyone to undertake this ordeal would have been treacherous, to say the least. Uh, within this passage we see Paul providing a top notch star review of the two characters involved in this mission, Timothy and Epaphroditus.

In essence, Timothy was somebody that Paul mentored, he's depicted as a devoted companion of Paul, and here he's described as having a genuine concern for the well being of the Philippians. Now, even Paul says that Timothy is like a son to him, emphasising their close relationship and Timothy's law character.

His readiness to take news back to the Philippians demonstrates not just his commitment to Paul, but also to the larger mission of spreading the gospel and caring for others. Epaphroditus, on the other hand, is presented more as a courageous individual who risked his life to support [00:13:00] Paul while he was imprisoned.

He was sent by the Philippians to assist Paul, showing their concern for his needs. Also in the passage, Paul highlights

Epaphroditus dedication and bravery, noting how he became seriously ill while serving, but he continued his mission despite the risks. It showcases the willingness to put himself in danger for the sake of others, which reflects the true heart of Christian service. Now, speaking of service, it is of course Remembrance Sunday, which is a time of year which is very true to my heart, and I'm sure to many other people as well.

Um, you know, it's a time to reflect to remember all of those who served and sacrificed their lives in conflict, especially in the previous two world wars. The characteristics of Timothy and Epaphroditus in this passage also resonate deeply with the virtue celebrated on this day. Their selflessness, courage and unwavering commitment to others mirror the qualities seen [00:14:00] in countless soldiers who laid down their lives for their comrades and for freedom.

As we remember those who served and sacrificed, we can draw parallels between their experiences and the lives of Timothy and Epaphroditus. Both sets of individuals faced daunting challenges, um, and exhibited remarkable dedications to the cause, demonstrating that true valour often involves putting the needs of others before one's own comfort or safety.

Uh, I'd now like to share a story with you about a man called Geoffrey Studdart Kennedy, who eagerly enlisted as a chaplain when war broke out in 1914, i. e. the First World War. Um, as a military chaplain He became known for his compassionate ministry, providing support to soldiers on the frontlines.

Geoffrey's approach often involved distributing woodbine cigarettes to soldiers, a small gesture that became symbolic of his larger mission to bring comfort and hope [00:15:00] in the darkest of times. His commitment to caring for others, despite the dangers surrounding him, mirrors the selfless service seen in both biblical narrative and in the sacrifices of many soldiers.

As he found himself in the harrowing trenches of the Somme, Ypres, and Mazin, Kennedy quickly became known for his extraordinary compassion and, of course, bravery. Unarmed and fearless, he'd venture into no man's land, often under heavy machine gun fire and artillery fire, to comfort dying soldiers.

Clutching his Bible, he'd whisper prayers and hold their hands as they faced their final moments and also give them a woodbine cigarette. His presence offered solace in an otherwise unimaginable, brutal environment. It's said that he filled his backpack with woodbines, Bibles and a great deal of love. It wasn't long after that that he became lovingly known as Woodbine Willie and the Battlefield Saint.

[00:16:00] Woodbine Willie's story serves as a powerful example of these qualities in action during World War I. Woodbine Willie exemplified the same selfless spirits found in Timothy and Epaphroditus. He risked his life to comfort the wounded, share the gospel and provide solace in the face of tragedy. What also set Woodbine Willie apart was his incredible generosity.

It's said that he gave away a staggering, I think it was, yeah, 865, 000 cigarettes, nearly a million woodbines, all purchased with his own money. Now, bearing in mind this is the start of the 20th century, I wouldn't endorse anybody to buy a million cigarettes now. But historians estimate he spent. Over 43, 000 every single spare penny of his salary to boost the morale of the men all fighting.

Um, and by the time he returned home, he didn't have a penny to his name. His bravery didn't go unnoticed. He received the military cross from King George V [00:17:00] after risking his life, um, to get to the winter soldiers in the midst of this crazy fighting, of course, he wasn't obliged to do so. And it was an act of pure compassion.

After the war, he served as the personal chaplain to the king. He also became a best selling author and poet, using his words to advocate for peace and humanity. In the end, Woodbine Willie was not just a chaplain in the war, he was a beacon of love and hope and compassion in the darkest of times. His legacy lives on, reminding us of the power of selflessness and humanity the heart of Christianity lies the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ who laid down his life for humanity.

His act of love and redemption is the cornerstone of the gospel. Just as Timothy and Epaphroditus served others with their lives, Jesus sacrifice was the supreme example of selflessness [00:18:00] and service. He did not seek his own comfort. Instead, he embraced suffering for the sake of others. This connection serves as a profound reminder during Remembrance Sunday as we honour those who have made the ultimate sacrifice in service to their countries.

We are also called to reflect on the greater love that Jesus exemplified. The willingness to give one's life for others is a theme that runs both through military sacrifice and the gospel message. In honouring the memory of fallen soldiers and figures like Woodbine Willie, we can also embrace the call to serve others in our communities today.

The spirit of remembrance can inspire us to embody the selflessness of Timothy and Epaphroditus, and of course Jesus, motivating us to take action, support those in need, and foster a sense of community that reflects the love of Christ. The lives of Timothy and Epaphroditus provide a compelling framework for [00:19:00] understanding the themes of sacrifice.

Love and Service, especially in the context of Remembrance Sunday. I think it's easy sometimes to think back to the Bible being from 2000 plus years ago, and you can sometimes read these stories, um, and feel like it was such a long time ago, whereas if we can draw these parallels with the Bible. The last hundred years, then I think it makes things hit home a lot more, and it becomes more relevant.

So I hope these connections have made sense, um, and by drawing the connect, connections between these biblical figures, and the experience of the soldiers in the world wars, and all other wars, um, and the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus, we're reminded of the enduring power of selfless love, and the call to honour that legacy in our own lives.

In remembering those who served, we're also invited to reflect on how we can carry their spirit forward by living lives marked by [00:20:00] compassion and commitment to one another. Thank you.

Conversation Street

Matt Edmundson: Welcome back. Sorry, I'm just getting the Bible verses up on my phone here.

Claire Glare: I thought of doing that and then I forgot. Well done.

Matt Edmundson: Well, as long as one of us is doing it, that's the main thing. That's the main thing. Andy, listen, thanks for doing the talk, man. And, um, really appreciate it, and love the story of what was it?

Woodbound Willie. Woodbound Willie.

Claire Glare: Yeah. That's just. That's a stunning story. I, I mean, I think, yeah, I think it is about, it's different times, isn't it? Um, but I think that, you know, putting your money where your mouth is. Yeah. It really says a lot, doesn't it? You know, if you, if you're prepared to, [00:21:00] to give out of your own personal pocket to, um, to help other people that, you know, it's, it's, it's where the rubber hits the road really, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson: It is. And actually, uh, the story that Andy was sharing, it's not just about the fact he was willing to give. money. He gave every single penny.

Andy Kettle: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Um, which I find deeply challenging. Yeah. You know, this guy's on the battlefield. I don't know if he's complaining about the whole, you know, life is rubbish kind of thing, but he is on the battlefield and he is doing his darndest.

to make life better for other people and he's spending all his money doing it.

Claire Glare: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: That's not challenging in any way.

Claire Glare: Yeah. Yeah. I will. Yeah. And yeah, it is, isn't it? Yeah. I guess that's why we're talking about him. Yeah. Thanks, Andy, for the heads up on it. We'd never heard of him until now. Well, no, we had, actually.

I'd heard of Woodbine Willie, but I didn't know his story.

Matt Edmundson: I'd not [00:22:00] heard of him, Woodbine Willie. I think it's a great name, though. Like Marlboro Matt. Siggy Clare.

It's um, yeah, I mean, just, you know, full disclosure, obviously we're not advocating you go and buy cigarettes and give them out to people, but we get the point that this was the earliest 20th century and I, I think it's quite an extraordinary story and we're still talking about it years later. Have you been affected by, or is anyone in your, is there, in your history?

You know, when Remembrance Sunday comes along, do you remember someone from your family?

Claire Glare: No, I don't. I, I've got, um, my granddad's, no, my grandma's brothers. There was a great uncle. Arthur and a Great Uncle Jimmy and they were in the Second World War. Um, but they died quite early on when I was young. So we, you know, never Uncle, Great Uncle Jimmy was a bit of a weird figure.

Andy Kettle: Yeah.

Claire Glare: But you know, I think there were a lot of weird [00:23:00] characters after the Second World War. You know, the impact of the war had that on them. So no, I don't, it makes me a bit sad. But whenever I go to remembrance services, I think, You know, I, in fact, I was thinking about an old lady today. You know, I think you do remember those people who've had an impact on you for all sorts of reasons.

What about you?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I, family members have definitely fought in various conflicts around the world, um, some of which came back safely and some of which didn't. Um, a little known fact, I was this close to joining the RAF.

Claire Glare: Oh, really?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. I was going to go in as a pilot, um, and I won't bore you with the stories as to why that didn't happen, but yeah, here I sit, um.

Claire Glare: Firmly on the ground.

Matt Edmundson: Firmly on the ground. Firmly on the ground, yes. Uh, much to, you know, I, whenever I watch movies like Top Gun Maverick, and I know it's a story, um, I, I know it's not real, but I watch movies like that and think, I wonder what would have been, [00:24:00] you know, for the grace of God, fly eye, yes, but yeah, I do, and remember it someday, it does affect family, and you do think about it, and the sacrifice people made, but it's not just for me about family, it's about the fact that there were strangers.

who did incredible stuff for people that they would never know. Um, and I find it deeply humbling, so when I hear stories of little, uh, the, what, Wilbur, I need to remember the name of the cigarettes.

Claire Glare: Oh, Woodbines. Woodbines,

Matt Edmundson: that's it.

Claire Glare: You never heard of Woodbines before? No.

Matt Edmundson: No, I've lived a sheltered life, obviously.

Claire Glare: Have you ever been, we were in, um, Bath, Bath. Bath at the, uh, for half term a couple of weeks ago. And, um,

Matt Edmundson: yeah. Sorry, show of hands. Bath. Bath. Yeah. Well, there's, yeah, we're in, we in the north. We are in the north, yeah. Yes.

Claire Glare: Anyway. And have you been bath one, by the

Matt Edmundson: way? You [00:25:00] can't see the hands that by far.

Claire Glare: Um, have you ever seen any of those, um, transparent, uh, 2D shapes of a soldier?

Does anyone else know what I'm talking about? And they, so there was, we were in an old church and there were these transparent shapes um, of soldiers just sat in the pews and I found myself, and they'd had, they had like poppies all over the place and there were two or three of them around and I just was like properly, Oh my goodness, I just need to take a moment here and sob quietly in a pew.

Um, and you know, there was nobody else there, but it was, it was a real moment.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, fascinating. Right. Let's get into the comments and the questions.

Claire Glare: Oh, this is too small for me.

Matt Edmundson: Sorry. I'll, I'll read it. Sarah says, Hi. Hi. Uh, Oh, we have apparently Philippi's in Greece.

Claire Glare: Yeah. Thank you for the geography correction.

Geography

Matt Edmundson: correction. Uh, Nicholas says her granddad was in the [00:26:00] home guard as he was a farmer. Oh

Claire Glare: The Home Guard.

Matt Edmundson: The Home Guard. Do you, what, what do you think of when you think of the Home Guard? Well,

Claire Glare: you've got to think of, um, Dad's Army. Dad's Army. Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: without a doubt. Who do you think you kidded, Mr.

Hitler? Yeah.

Claire Glare: Yeah. Yeah, I'm there. I'm showing my age. We're not, but we're not doing karaoke tonight. No karaoke tonight.

Matt Edmundson: Okay. Which is a beautiful thing. If you've no idea what we're talking about, go onto YouTube and type in Dad's Army, uh, and just see if there's any of the old episodes on there. I've not seen one in years.

Like, they're probably not very PC now. I think

Claire Glare: they've managed to be more PC than some mothers do have, which was around at a similar time. Because actually, I think they were more about the characters, and actually they were doing a good thing, weren't they? They were trying to keep their You know, home fires safe.

Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. So yeah, go watch it on YouTube. Um, it's, it's a good old comedy show from the 70s. Uh, we used to give my granddad woodbines for [00:27:00] Christmas. Don't tell him, Pike. Yeah, there you go. Quotes. Um, okay, so let's have a look at, uh, love from Lithuania.

Claire Glare: Oh, my surname, my maiden name is Wilner. Hello, lovely Lithuania.

Vilnius is the capital of Lithuania.

Matt Edmundson: Oh, is it?

Claire Glare: There we go. Not been. Sorry, was I looking

Matt Edmundson: surprised? Because I wondered how you're going to make the connection from Wilno to Lithuania. There you go.

Claire Glare: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Very good. Bit of

Claire Glare: geography comes into play.

Matt Edmundson: Would you have had to have Googled how to pronounce the name?

What are we going to call him? We're going to

Claire Glare: call him

Matt Edmundson: Epapi.

Claire Glare: Epapi. Because Andy was clearly struggling, but he did a good job. Epaphroditus. To be fair, I'm struggling

Matt Edmundson: with ePapi, it doesn't sound right, something's gone wrong with it. Uh, how easy do you find it to live this life of sacrifice in the modern world?

Which if I look at the next question, it says, do you think that self sacrifice being at the heart of the Christian message means that Christians [00:28:00] can't say no to helping people? How does that work with avoiding burnout? That's a good question. Over to you, Claire.

Claire Glare: Flippin heck, that's tricky. Um, I think, I, I think we, I think we, as Christians, I think we are called to a higher standard of self sacrifice.

We absolutely are, and I think if, You know, and that's why the church has been responsible for starting loads of different charities, um, you know, of voluntary service, um, you know, during the coronavirus, it was volunteer organizations, the church, that stepped up, um, when everything else shut down. Um, And, and I think, yeah, we do have to be wise to our own, you know, you, you know, you [00:29:00] have to look to your own family and make sure that your family is protected and safe and all the rest of it.

I'm sat in a wobbly chair, um, uh, but, um, but I think you do, you, you, we have to put ourselves out and if it's not comfortable, um, Then, you need, we need to call out to God and find, find that extra resource and find that extra strength. There are seasons, I definitely am not in a season where I am as reliable as I used to be, um, or would like to be, um, uh, uh.

That's because of kids, though, right? But that's because, that's because of kids. Um, but, but, you know, I, you know, I'd like to be more spontaneous. You know, that's my nature, and that, that's a challenge for me, you know, because I want to give, I want to help, but actually You know, actually even now I've just had a text from my husband who's [00:30:00] saying, you know, actually the kids are playing up and da da da.

You know, and that is, that's a sacrifice for him to make. Thanks, thanks brother. I appreciate that. He's

Matt Edmundson: watching this going

Claire Glare: blah blah blah. Um, you know, but at the same time it's about, The Holy Spirit working through us, isn't it? And I think that's the thing about burnout, that actually, if we're doing it out of our own strength and our own ability, then, then it will lead to burnout.

But if we're actually calling on the resources of heaven and the Holy Spirit and, and listening and waiting, oh, this is the thing, you know, doing what we see our Father do, like Jesus did. You know, not answering everything, but listening. Okay. All right, then. Yeah, then that that's the protection, isn't it? I think

Matt Edmundson: I think it's a really good point.

And I I Don't know if I have the right or wrong answer for this [00:31:00] what I can tell you is that Burnout is both real and an excuse and I And it's hard to understand which side of the fence we sit sometimes. Um, like I, I'm aware people can get busy. Busy is a good word. How are you doing? I'm busy. I'm trying very hard to stop saying that, um, I'm busy.

Because I don't want to get into contests, you know, I'm more busy than you. Uh, and you're more busy than me, kind of a thing. And I think we all have the same 24 hours in a day. Um, we all have the same ability to prioritize, um, you've got to put the most important things in your diary first. I truly believe that, um, but I think a life lived surrendered to God, does that lead to burnout?

I think it can lead to a full life, and I think it can lead to a lot going on, and I think there will be seasons where life is busier than others. [00:32:00] But I think burnout occurs more when we try and live this life as Christians where we're half in, half out. We try and live life our way and try and live a little bit of life God's way and then we're trying to do too much.

Um, or we actually have no good boundaries. And so that's another point, isn't it? It's like, actually, I find it very hard to say no, because I, I feel like I can't say no, or I don't have those kind of boundaries in place. There's a great book, who's the author?

Claire Glare: Cloud.

Matt Edmundson: Cloud. Henry.

Claire Glare: Henry. Henri.

Matt Edmundson: Henri. Uh, Henry Cloud called Boundaries, which is definitely worth reading if you struggle with boundaries, and I think that's a really important thing.

Yeah. Um, but I would rather live a life full and busy, and I think, um, In the modern world, sometimes we get so protective of things like, I don't hear it so much these days, I've got to protect me time, you know, which means I've just got to watch Netflix for two hours. You're like, really? I never saw Jesus doing that.

I just, you know, funny how that [00:33:00] works, right? Um, and I, so I think sometimes our priorities can get out of whack. I think our balance can sometimes get out of whack. Um, and I think when we live in this half in, half out, Burnout is a very real possibility, but I think living a life surrendered to God's calling will be a full and busy life and it will be hard and it will be possibly relentless, um, but that goes back to your point, you're doing it with the grace of God and the power of God then, aren't you?

It's when you try and do all that without God's help and you're on your own.

Claire Glare: Well, and, and repentance is a great thing, isn't it? If we make a mess, we do it in our own strength and we just go, oh crumbs, here I am again, a bit tired around the edges.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely. Um, how easy do, well, let's go to this question.

How easy do we find it to live a life of sacrifice? So it's not a word we, I don't know, Claire, but, If you and John sit around the table and go, how sacrificial [00:34:00] is your life today? Do you know what I mean? It's not a word.

Claire Glare: It's not a word that we use modernly in modern times. Do you

Matt Edmundson: ever ask that question to yourselves?

No. Uh, what's the

Claire Glare: Giving. Would that be, would that, like, how, how giving are you? Would that be something?

Matt Edmundson: I don't know. It's a really interesting question, isn't it, when you use the word sacrifice. But sacrifice,

Claire Glare: when I think of sacrifice, I'm thinking like Abraham and Isaac, like dead lamb. But, but, but, you know, but, but, But, but we don't have to do that anymore, do we, because of Jesus?

Matt Edmundson: Well, praise the Lord, yes. And,

Claire Glare: um, I think, you see, I

Matt Edmundson: think of the sacrifice of Christ.

Claire Glare: Yes,

Matt Edmundson: that's a

Claire Glare: much better, that's a much better image, well done.

Matt Edmundson: Putting that out there. I think of the sacrifice of Christ, but I think there's this, um, living a life of sacrifice. The Bible says that God [00:35:00] desires obedience more than sacrifice.

Yeah. Um. But living an obedient life is sacrificial. So sacrificial just means laying down what I want to give to you or to somebody else, right? Um, which comes back to your giving or laying down the life or that kind of phraseology. And I think, I think it's one of the biggest challenges that we face in the Christian church because it's easy to live my way You know, and center life around me and my needs, um, but to sacrifice and to give to others.

Claire Glare: Well, and if, and it's the lordship of Christ in our lives, isn't it? If we are surrendered to Christ, then by nature we live not for ourselves, and it's whatever he says goes.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's really, I hope this is answering your questions. [00:36:00] I think it's a fascinating conversation, living a life of sacrifice. So let's talk about mentorship.

That was in the, in the questions.

Andy Kettle: What was it?

Matt Edmundson: Mentorship. How important is it to get mentored, do you think? Oh yeah, because you've got the Timothy and the Paul relationship. And there's this really tight relationship with Timothy and Paul. There seems to be a tight relationship between Timmy and Paul.

Timmy, Timmy and M Pappy, we can't call him M Pappy, he's sacrificing the names of the people in the Bible. Uh, but it's, it's, there seems to be these sort of strong relationships, so, um, he, he was, It's sick, almost unto death, and Paul says that God healed him, um, as a mercy, which saved him sorrows upon sorrows, I think Dan's put that in the comments, but it's that kind of, there's obviously this really strong relationship to, you know, Paul's talking about if he died I would have had sorrow upon sorrows, I mean that's quite a, that's quite a deep grief, isn't it?

Claire Glare: I think, um I think we have so [00:37:00] many distractions, don't we? And our relationships and our level of relationships is comparatively shallow, I think. And I, um, I mean, I'm just thinking now, like, if, you know, if somebody was to die, who, who, if, Who would be those people that I would have sorrow upon sorrow of, you know, um, and, you know, there would, obviously, there would, but I think when you live right in such close contact and community with people, then that level of relationship is really, is, you know, you've joined, aren't you?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no you are and I think that depth of relationship is quite challenging as well. And this is when I, you watch TV shows like Band of Brothers which became popular based out of the war, did you ever see that one? And how times of war create [00:38:00] this bond, this friendship between um, between the soldiers that you don't get in.

What people call Civvy Street, you know, where you, where outside of the military you don't seem to get that. Well if you

Claire Glare: have to rely on somebody, if you are literally putting your life in their hands or, you know, you're firefighting or you're doing something that, that, you know, that level of trust is huge, isn't it?

And in normal life that we don't usually entrust our personal safety to somebody, do we, in that?

Matt Edmundson: And this is where it's interesting where scripture talks about this kind of relationship between Timothy and Paul, isn't it, this sort of almost like sonship, um, even though Paul was not his father, he kind of treated him like a son, um, and that depth of relationship and investing in that relationship.

Um, so I think mentorship as a concept, as an idea is great. I think [00:39:00] discipleship we talk about in church, which is great and giving your life. But I think it mentorship in business just means, Matt, can I call you when I've got a question? Right? So I mentor various people in the business community. And so, yeah.

If they have a question, they'll give me a ring, what do you think about this? And I'll talk to them about it. And I think that's okay. And yes, we should definitely do that. But I think what it talks about here in scripture, like you say, is way deeper. And it talks about pouring your life or investing into people.

Yeah. I don't know how good we are at that.

Claire Glare: Yeah. Yeah. There's that being poured out as a spiritual sacrifice, you know? Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: yeah. So that's a really great question on mentorship. And again, it's all very challenging stuff today, isn't it? Um, Sarah said that my great Great grandfather was shot in the chest.

He had a Bible in his chest, uh, which meant the bullet just missed his heart.

Claire Glare: I love those stories. You heard them so much. I feel like, I mean, I've never, but that's great that she's got that personal [00:40:00] story, but I, cause I feel like I hear that and you just think, but that, that's where they carried it because actually they knew.

They'd heard the stories too, hadn't they? It was like, oh yeah, my mate nearly got killed, but he was carrying the Bible there, so I'll just do the same.

Matt Edmundson: I've got the Bible

Claire Glare: in my

Matt Edmundson: chest pocket. And, um, we don't do that anymore.

Claire Glare: No. I

Matt Edmundson: might put my phone there. Don't know if that would stop a bullet.

Claire Glare: Don't know.

Depends what kind. Yeah. I don't know. That's quite an incredible story, isn't it? It's wonderful.

Matt Edmundson: Those kind of things. Um, I think they're, they're, they're phenomenal. What do you think then, uh, let's have a look at the comments.

Timothy and the chap were commended for serving Paul and the church at Philippi. Is God calling us to secular service as well as service to God's family?

Claire Glare: Yeah. What's the difference? Sorry.

Matt Edmundson: It's interesting, isn't it? Because there are, there are schools of thought which has, you [00:41:00] know, when scripture talks about serving, it talks usually about serving God.

fellow Christians, right? But then there's also the, the fact that, um, I think Sharon, you said this, didn't you? That most charities, there's a disproportionate number of Christians who work in charity. So, Christians account for a small percentage of the nation, but account for a massive portion of charity workers, um, and so there is a lot of social justice, a lot of social outreach which has come from Christians.

I'm not saying Christians have a monopoly on it, certainly not these days, but there is a disproportionate number of Christians which carry that, um, and not always in church related activities. No. So, um.

Claire Glare: But we're called, what is it, it's not my quote, um, I'm gonna probably hash it up, um, the church is the only institution that is called for its, [00:42:00] that was created for its non members and it's that principle, isn't it, that we're,

you

Claire Glare: know, yes, we are called to, you know, Look after our brothers and sisters and, you know, feed the widows and the orphans and all of that.

Absolutely, um, bought. Everybody else.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, well the widows and orphans didn't have to be Christians to get served. And so, um, I think there is, I think fundamentally you have to go wherever God's telling you to go. And serve wherever God's telling you to serve. And sometimes that will be inside the church, and sometimes that will be outside the church.

Um, but wherever it is, it will be impactful. Um, would be my Yeah. That would be my thing. Uh, I think we need wisdom in how much to get involved and how much to sacrifice or not sacrifice in any situation. Yeah. That's a very good point. Yeah. Um, I don't think we're meant to sacrifice ourselves to do things that other people are meant to do for themselves and are able to do.

That's a very good point. [00:43:00] Uh, but I think sometimes we all need extra help, um, and sacrifice or support from others. I think it's a really good point actually, because, um, there is an entitlement. that I think creeps, but it is prevalent in culture, which means it creeps into the church. And as soon as you grab onto that spirit of entitlement, then yes, you are going to expect people to do stuff for you that you can do for yourself.

Um, and that's, that's problematic. Uh, and I, I think actually it's probably one of the best ways I can serve you in that situation is to say, No, you need to do that for yourself. Do you need me to show you how to do that for yourself? rather than just keep doing things for

Claire Glare: them.

Matt Edmundson: Would that be a fair comment?

Yeah,

Claire Glare: yeah. You're way

Matt Edmundson: more pastoral than me, so I don't know if you've got any thoughts on that.

Claire Glare: It's tough love, isn't it? It's like, but well, yeah, I don't know, I don't know that I am. But we [00:44:00] do it with kids, right? Yeah, yeah. With the

Matt Edmundson: kids, you don't, you don't do everything for, I mean, imagine, you know, our kids are leaving home, but imagine doing the stuff that we, when they were four, we're doing for them now.

It's like, no, I'm not doing that. Yeah,

Claire Glare: there's a, there's development in there. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Claire Glare: And, and, and a call to actually, it's, you're, you need to do this now.

Matt Edmundson: But there is this thing, if you do keep doing those, I, I'm, I'm kind of laughing to myself because I know every time, Sharon moans at me a bit, not moans, but makes me aware that whenever I go back to my mum's house, I regress, yeah, I regress to being a teenager.

And mum just does everything for me. Yeah. And I love it. But she also

Claire Glare: loves it, doesn't she? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt Edmundson: But she's enabling that in me, and I think sometimes, and Mum, if you're listening to this, I'm not, this does not mean you, I'm just clarifying, um, actually sometimes the best thing you can do for somebody is to not enable that behaviour, right?

So I think it's one of those, isn't [00:45:00] it? The loving thing is to just go, come on, dude.

Claire Glare: Yeah. But then also I, I go to my 83 year old mother in Manchester to do sew buttons on for me because I could clearly do that myself. Don't want to. And, and as long as my little quote is, as long as you're foolish enough to do it for me, I'm bringing me buttons home mum.

And we have a little giggle about it, but it's, you know, on those silly little things. Yeah. They're a pleasure, aren't they, as a, as a mom to do for your children, your adult children, who can do themselves. We'll, uh, close with this

Matt Edmundson: notice, as this is Grace Prince, live from Lithuania. Missing Frontline, loving crowd.

Claire Glare: Oh, we love Grace.

Matt Edmundson: Grace, you're a legend. Absolute legend. Miss you in the worship band. Yeah. Great voice. Yeah. Great voice. Wonderful. Anything else in closing? Because I'm aware of time. Anything you want to say that's not been said on Remembrance Sunday? [00:46:00]

Claire Glare: Remember.

Matt Edmundson: Well, that's about as deep as it gets, ladies and gentlemen. Um, so yes, thank you so much for joining us. Now, let me, uh, just give a few notes, I suppose, for we, before we end the live stream. Number one is, uh, do come join us next week. We're going to carry on our study in the Book of Philippians. I think we've got Dave next week.

Dave Connolly. I'm looking at you guys. I don't know why I'm looking at you because you don't know. I'm clueless. So we've got Dave come in speaking next week. He's actually going to be live here from the Frontline Centre. So if you're in Liverpool, do come join us. Dave is a legend and a good friend. Why are you cheering on the sound desk?

Claire Glare: And a great example of the Timothy Epaphroditus y thing. Oh,

Matt Edmundson: you've put the www. crowd. church on there. Okay.

Claire Glare: Well done.

Matt Edmundson: Zoe's very excited. She's put GoTek Girlies, um, which is what they call themselves. I just want to point that out. That's their name for themselves. [00:47:00] GoTek Girlies. Sorry, I interrupted you.

Claire Glare: No, it's alright, I was just bigging Dave up and saying Timothy and Epaphroditus and all of that, we, yeah, good, good example.

Yeah, yeah,

Matt Edmundson: absolutely. Dave is a classic example of a guy who, like Paul, has sown into me. I would be his Timothy in many ways. Um, and so, yeah, a lot of respect for Dave. So do come join us next week. Make sure you like, subscribe and do all of that good stuff. If you haven't done so yet, go to the Crowd website, fill in the little form and you'll get an email with all the stuff, um, what's coming up.

All the notes and so on and so forth. That just comes straight to your inbox. It'd just be great to hear from you. Send us your prayer requests. The information came up on the screen. Um, we would love to pray for you. And if you'd like to know anything about Crowd Church, any questions not been answered, do get in touch.

Um, and we'll try our level best to answer those questions because it's always fun. Usually. Some of the questions, no.

But yes, thank you so much for joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. From me and from Claire, thank [00:48:00] you so much for joining us. Bye for now.

Bye.