What Does The Bible Say About Anger?

What does the Bible say about Anger_ Matt: [00:00:00] Well, good afternoon and welcome to Crowd Church. My name is Matt Edmundson and it is great that you are here with us. Uh, and I'm here with, well, just the beautiful, gorgeous, and just fabulous me, me. How are we doing? Oh, now why can't I hear you Mim? Oh, that's a good question. We can't hear you for some reason. I dunno why that is. I'm gonna come and fix it. When we do the talk, that's what's gonna happen. I think the microphone must have switched itself off for some reason. Okay? So, uh, mim, you can, you can, you can join in, uh, using, you know, your hands and stuff like that. I dunno. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. So before I go and fix the sound issues that we have with Mims microphone, uh, mim, what's coming up today, see [00:01:00] if you can mind me. I just, we have, uh, we have a talk. Yeah, we have a talk. Uh, uh, the three syllables. You just have to do that whole three. So we've got a talk coming up by Sharon, and Sharon is gonna be doing a talk on anger. What does the Bible say about anger? Then hopefully mim and I will be back four con conversation streak. Well, you will actually be able to hear mim uh, chat chataway. So great to be with you. Great here. Uh, yeah, hard lines hard. I'm just looking through the comments. Um, hard, uh, look to Liverpool. Yes. Uh, thank you for those that are joining us and not watching the game. Uh, Vicki says, she says Hi. Trace says Hi. Uh, Matt's in the comments. John Farrington is in the comments with Crowd. So, uh, please do join in, do say hi, ask your questions and comments as we go through. Uh, as I said, we're gonna have a talk by Sharon. The talk is what does the Bible say about anger? If you have [00:02:00] just joined us, MIM is not saying anything because the microphone's not working. Uh, that's the, that's the problem that we have. So we're gonna fix that while the talk's on. Don't panic, uh, but whilst the talk is happening, if you've got any questions, thoughts, or comments, do write them as we go along. We're gonna be talking about anger. We are about a year into a whole series called What Does the Bible Say About, and we deep dive into the Bible on a specific topic. And today is anger. What does the Bible say about anger? The talk is done by thee, just my favorite person on the whole planet. My wife Sharon, she is doing this talk, uh, m and I will be back, uh, in just a little while. Yeah, we just, that's right. We just, that's, let's do that. Uh, mim and I will back in a little while of Conversation Street. Uh, grab your notebooks, grab your pens because you're gonna want them for this. It is gonna be fantastic. No pressure, babe. But here we go. Here is, uh, what does the Bible say about anger?[00:03:00] Sharon: What does the Bible say about anger? What [00:04:00] did you think when you heard what today's talk is about? When some people think about the Bible and anger, they think of the God in the older part of the, the Bible who seems angry all the time, and the God in the newer part seems loving as if they're two different people. If that's something you've wondered about. I've done a talk for Crowd before on this subject that you can listen to on the website. It has the really catchy title of is The Loving God of the New Testament, the same as the angry God of the Old Testament. As a child growing up in church, I heard verses such as the following one and thought it was wrong to be angry at all. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. It was a really unhealthy belief because when I got angry, which was often. I felt bad about it and tried to suppress it, and that turned into depression. I was angry at other people, at myself and at God. Maybe you are like me in that. Your natural tendency is to suppress anger and pretend that it isn't [00:05:00] there, or maybe other complete opposite that and tend to be more explosive and to lash out. One of our kids used to communicate their feelings with their fists when they were little. Or do you fall somewhere in the middle? When I was in my twenties, I went for Christian counseling. I found out some of what the Bible actually says about anger, and it started to set me free. Today I am gonna look at God's anger, our anger, and other people's anger, and some suggestions on how to respond to each of these. So what is anger? The Cambridge Dictionary defines it like this. Anger is a strong feeling that makes you want to hurt someone or be unpleasant because of something unfair or unkind. That's happened. The Bible has many verses that talk about God being angry, but what makes him angry? Let's look at his anger in the context of the story of the Bible as a whole. The Bible tells us that God made the universe our earth or the animals and plants, but that as humans we're a special creation [00:06:00] because we are made in the image of God himself. God gave people a special role and a special place in the world were made to rule the earth and take care of it on his behalf. Men and women together. How do you think we're doing so far with ruling the earth and looking after it? Not so well. Maybe God had this to say about what he created. God saw all that he'd made and it was very good. Have you ever done something creative, creative and been really pleased with what you've made? Now our downstairs loot was awful. For years, we'd had problems with major leaks, so there was no ceiling. The wallpaper was hanging off. There was mold, the toilet was broken. No one liked going in there. But recently we did it up. We hid the pipes, we tiled the walls. We had a new ceiling. We re plastered and we painted for a small room. It had a seriously huge amount of work done in it. I often go in there now for no other [00:07:00] reason than to stand back and admire the work. How much more must God have done that with the world he created? But his world didn't stay a nice shiny world as people, we rebelled against him and we did things our own way and made a big mess in the process. You just have to listen to the news to see that. The Bible tells us that the whole of creation is affected by a rebellion. So we see both signs of great design and purpose in the world, but also of death and decay. And do you know what? If someone came into my house and smashed up my down, lovely downstairs, Lou, I would be so angry. How much more does God have the right to be angry when we mistreat each other and the world he's given us? Here are some of the things that make God angry according to the Bible. When we take advantage of the widow, widow or the fatherless when we don't listen to him. Disobedience being stiff-necked, causing others to do wrong. When we do [00:08:00] wicked things, when people sacrifice their sons and daughter in fire and when people are exploited, there are many other examples of things that make God angry, but if I could summarize them, it seems to be that God is angry when the people he loves that's all of us are mistreated or mistreating others and not living up to their purpose. Love and anger are like two sides of the same coin. Anger results when what is loved is threatened. But here are some other things that the Bible says about God's anger, but you are a forgiving God, gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and abounding in love for his anger. Lusts only a moment, but his favor lasts a lifetime. Yet he was merciful. He forgave their inequities and did not destroy them. Time after time, he restrained his anger and did not stir up his full wrath. He remembered that they were, but flesh a passing breeze that does not return. [00:09:00] So God is slow to anger. His anger is short, and he restrains his anger. God is perfectly just and righteous in his anger. God loves us so much, but he doesn't just brush off our evil and rebellion as if it doesn't matter because it does matter. Just as I wouldn't brush off the issue if someone destroyed my downstairs, Lou, just saying that would definitely not be okay. If God doesn't say that the things that hurt us don't matter. He says they matter very much when we are morally wrong. We deserve punishment. But instead of punishing us, he came to earth as a human Jesus and took our punishment on himself By dying on the cross, he poured out his anger towards us, on himself so that we wouldn't have to take it. He swaps places with us. He takes our filth and gives us his spotless righteousness. Listen to this, but God demonstrates his own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since [00:10:00] we've now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him for if while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his son? How much more having been reconciled shall we be saved through his life? So how should we respond to God's anger? I think firstly, we need to recognize that God is always right in his anger and his judgment. We can tend to think that we are the ones who define what's right and wrong, but our life is just a spec in time. Do we really think that we know better than the God he created everything? What's our knowledge compared to his? Secondly, we need to recognize that God has taken his, uh, anger for our rebellion on himself. We couldn't handle what we deserve, so he came in human form to live and die and rise against so that our relationship with him is restored. And thirdly, we have a choice. Forgiveness and a restored relationship with God are his gift to us, but he doesn't force it on us. We have to choose [00:11:00] if we accept this gift or not. Accepting his forgiveness doesn't mean we go on living our own way, because when we love someone, we don't want to hurt them. And when we love God, we don't want to hurt him by trampling on, uh, the things and people that he cares for. John three says, whoever believes in the sun has eternal life, but whoever rejects the sun will not see life. For God's wrath remains on on them. But what about us? We are not God. We're just human. Is it wrong for us to be angry? The answer to that is yes and no. Have a look at these two verses. Matthew five says, you've heard that it was said, um, to the people long ago. You shall not murder. And anyone who murders will be subject to judgment. But I tell you, anyone who's angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. And Ephesians four, in your anger, do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you're still angry. And do not give the devil a foothold. So the first verse seems to [00:12:00] be saying it's not okay to be angry, but the second one says It's possible to be angry without sinning, without being in the wrong whatever our reason for anger, these verses show that we're meant to deal with it quickly and not let it fester for days and turn into hate. Sometimes we are right to be angry and sometimes we're not. Now Tim Keller has done this fantastic talk called, um, it's about anger and it's called the healing of anger. And you can watch it on YouTube in that talk. He says that because anger is part of love, our anger gets disordered because our love is disordered. We we're created to put God first and then love for other people we're created to get our identity and significance from him. But often we get things the other way around and put things before him, and we put our identity and significance in the wrong things. And because we've misplaced our love, we get angry at the wrong things. And we can be a bit contrary at times, can't we? We get angry when we see evil and injustice in the world and we're angry with God for not doing anything about it. But [00:13:00] we can also be angry with God when we, um, see passages in the Bible where God, having been incredibly patient, will no longer put up with excessive evil anymore and all does the destruction of those doing the evil. Now I've had times where my anger is, uh, a righteous anger and times where my anger is all wrong. And I expect you probably all have as well. So let me give you some examples. So I teach English to women from around the world whose first language isn't, uh, English. And when I listen to the stories of some of my students, some of whom have been trafficked or fled war situations, I get angry for the way they've been treated and the things they've been through. This would be a righteous anger. It's the sort of thing that God gets angry about. On the other hand, I remember a time when I was at uni, and I'm sure there've been loads of times since this, but this one sticks out in my mind. And I remember that I was, um, invited to a social gathering of some sort. And at that point I didn't have, uh, um, I wasn't very confident at all, and it [00:14:00] took me a lot of courage to decide to go to this event. And part of that courage was I thought my friend would go with me, but she didn't wanna go. So I'd have to go on my own. And I was so angry with her, but she hadn't actually done anything wrong. It was my insecurity that made me angry. So how can we deal with our angry anger? Firstly, we need to admit that we're angry, which is the part that I used to have trouble doing. Um, we all get angry. It's part of being human. And in the Book of Psalms, which is a book of poetry in the Bible, there are verses where the author pulls out all of their emotions to God, including requests to God to destroy their enemies. God can handle our emotions. We can ask God to show us if our anger is godly or not. If it's not, we could admit to him that we've got it wrong and ask for his forgiveness, and we can ask him to show us what is the root of our anger and to change us and help change us from the inside. Are we angry that someone [00:15:00] more suited to the job got the promotion we wanted because our securities in our job title? I found that the more I've walked with God and learned how he sees me in the world, the more I've accepted his love and the more I've accepted his love for me, the less angry I've got at the wrong things. Another thing that has helped me loads is forgiveness. And uh, we've done a couple of talks about this in the past, which you can watch on our website. When I didn't admit that I was angry with people, I couldn't deal with the hurt. So it all got stuffed down. And the result of this I said before was depression. But the other result was that any time someone did even the slightest little thing to hurt me, I would overreact to it internally. To give you an analogy, in our kitchen we've got a cupboard, which is known as the cupboard of doom. It houses all our plastic pots and our drinking bottles and stuff like that. And it tends to be, um, often really full and not packed very. So that when you open the door to put something relatively small and other things just jump [00:16:00] out at you. And it's like that with forgiveness. If we don't forgive, it's like we are collecting rubbish in our soul or plastic pots. And then we've got, when we've got something relatively minor that happens, we open the door to stuff that in as well. Um, but all the, like, the path hurts jump out on us and we have an extreme reaction to something relatively small. Forgiveness means, uh, or meant that what other people had done no longer had a hold over me and no longer had that extreme reaction to the small stuff. When I first started. Um, to actually deal with all this, it took me literally weeks to forgive someone for really small stuff. But as I had more practice, I got a lot of quicker. Of course, some things are much easier to forgive than others. Sometimes we really need so much help from the Holy Spirit and from other people. The Holy Spirit doesn't just leave us to try and sort out all this stuff on our own. He's gentle and so humble [00:17:00] and willing to help us. But maybe you are someone who really struggles with anger, but you have no idea why. It could be that you have loads of stuffed, buried deep inside you from childhood that you didn't know how to process at the time. Don't feel that you have to struggle on your own with it. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you process all that you've been through. And maybe there's someone at your local church who's skilled at helping with these things, or you could con contact a counselor. Now, these, um, next verses are a, a good reminder for me. Uh, they're from James and they say, my dear brothers and sisters, take note of this. Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. Just as God is slow to anger, we too are called to be slow to anger. Sometimes my first reaction when [00:18:00] something happens can be to feel angry. Maybe, uh, someone hasn't done what they said they'd do, and I'm annoyed and verging on that, uh, anger. I'm still learning, uh, to take that step back. And, um, and I feel like to remember patience, uh, maybe something's happened that, uh, that meant that they weren't able to do what they said they'd do. Maybe I've misunderstood. Maybe I've forgotten that we change plans, all of which are possible. Raymond says, do not take revenge, my dear friend, but leave room for God's wrath. For it's written. It is mind to repay as the Lord. When we feel angry, when not to take revenge, we can leave the person to God knowing that he will take care of them. When I went to counseling, this next verse was really helpful to me. It's from Ephesians and says, if you are an in your anger, do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you're still angry. It basically says it's possible to feel angry and not sin. One of the great things about being [00:19:00] human is that we can choose how, how to respond to situations. Just because we feel angry doesn't mean that we have to act on it in a negative way. Even if we have good reason for our anger, it doesn't give us reason to do the wrong things. We can choose to forgive, to be patient, um, to take a step back to pray and ask God for his wisdom to get out of an abusive situation or to help bring justice to situations. We have choices with God's help. We are not just at the mercy of our emotions. Proverbs 14 says, whoever is patient has great understanding, but one who's quick tempered displays folly. So let's look at other people's anger. Just as our anger can either be for good reasons or can be unjustified. So can the anger other people, um, have, have a look at these verses. Matthew five says, therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar first, go and be reconciled to [00:20:00] them, then come and offer your gift. These firsts show us that if someone else is angry with us, we have a responsibility to do what we can to sort out the situation where appropriate. Of course, reconciliation isn't always possible if someone else is behaving wrongly. Uh, there are also verses that talk about confronting that person. Um, taking another person as backup if needed. And I've said before, God doesn't say that wrong, doesn't matter, and then we should brush it under the carpet. The complete opposite. True. If someone gets angry often and easily, maybe we need to take a step back from the relationship. Have a look at these verses. Do not make friends with a hot tempered person. Do not associate with one easily angered, or you may learn their ways and get yourself ensnared. Or an angry person stirs up conflict and a hot tempered person commits many sins. Here are some more great verses that help us deal with other people when they're angry. A gentle [00:21:00] answer turns away Roth, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Um, a hot tempered person stirs up conflict, but the one who is patient calms a quarrel. Many years ago, I was really angry with Matt about something. I know you're shocked about that. How could anyone be angry with him? I can't remember what it was, but I was rehearsing all the mean things I wanted to say to him in my head. When I confronted him about the situation, ready to have a go at him, his response was to apologize. Well, that totally took the wind outta my sails. The things I'd planned to say no longer seemed relevant. It's the same for us when we're dealing with other people's anger. Maybe we, um, don't have anything to apologize for, but still a gentle answer can have a powerful effect. And maybe you've got your own examples of where this has worked for you. So it that we've seen when dealing with other people, God wants us to be patient and forgiving. We are not to seek revenge. That can be hard enough in itself. [00:22:00] But the Bible takes all this to a whole other level. Listen to these verses. Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath. For it's written, it's mind to revenge. I will re replace as the Lord. On the contrary, if your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he's thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heat burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good hear. God's saying, not just to hold back from revenge, but to actually love our enemies, to pay evil with good. That's a bit shocking. Why does he say that? Because that's what he's like and that's how his kingdom works. How is it possible for us to love our enemies? How is it possible to go for going from being angry that we've been mistreated to loving the people who've mistreated us? I think we can only do that with God's help, and by recognizing that when we're God's enemy, he still loved us. When we [00:23:00] receive his love and forgiveness for ourselves, we can then give it out to other people. It's not about trying hard to be good. It's about passing on what we've received ourselves. I'll leave you with these verses from one John because they sum it up really well. Dear friends, let us love one another. For love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us. He sent his one and only son into the world that we might live through him. This is love. Not that we love God, but that he loved us and sent his son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. Mim: Wow. Thanks so much, Sharon, for that amazing talk, really insightful. Please, if you've got any comments or questions about the [00:24:00] talk, just continue to pop them in the chat. We are gonna go into time now of worship and reflection, uh, with the song, how Deep Is The Father's Love for Us, and that just basically talks about how amazing God's love is for us and just the depths of his love. Um, but just before that, we are gonna pray the Ukrainian Prayer together. Uh, the words will be on the screen, so if you wanna join, uh, in, please do so at home. If you wanna just quietly sit and reflect or pray along your own Prayer, that is also fine and we will see you after that for Conversation Street. Matt: Father God, king of all nations, we cry out to you. Now, for the people of Ukraine, we ask you to rescue those who are vulnerable from the hands of their enemies. That they may live life without [00:25:00] fear before you all of their days. Lord, have mercy, Lord of lords and prince of peace. Our politicians are predicting the biggest war in Europe since 1945, and we simply cry out to you urgently to write another story in our time for the dark machinations of evil men give wisdom beyond human wisdom to peacemakers seeking an equitable and less violent way. May politicians exercise the wisdom from above, which is peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, and full of mercy. Lord have mercy. Holy Spirit, we pray for the church in Ukraine, a nation in which 70% of the population call themselves Christian. Give our many brothers and sisters in that nation courage in this crisis. That they may proclaim the [00:26:00] good news of your kingdom. Bind up broken hearts and bring comfort to all who mourn. Lord have mercy. You Lord, make war cease to the end of the earth. You break bows, shatter spears, and burn shields with fire. And so we ask you now to save the lives of many people in Ukraine. Make a peace that is strong and not weak. Deescalate this crisis. We hear of wars and rumors of wars, but you Lord are our rock, our fortress, and our deliverer. Our hope is in you. And so we address the nations now in the name of Jesus. We say, be still and know God. He is exalted among the nations. He shall be exalted in the earth. Lord have mercy.[00:27:00] Video: How deep the fathers love. Beyond that, he should to his how great the pain of as wounds, which[00:28:00] bring. Behold the man upon Christ, upon his hear. It was my sin. That dying breath has brought.[00:29:00] Not boast in gifts boast in Jesus Christ. Why should I gain from his reward I[00:30:00] my heart? His wounds have paid my, why should I gain from his reward? I cannot, his wounds have paid. Matt: Wow. There we go. How deep The father's love, love that song. Love it. Old school hymns like that, just dunno. Mi i, you see, for those of you who don't know, MI and Mim was a little bit silent during the instruction. [00:31:00] Um, uh, it wasn't her fault, it was totally mine. Um, for those of you who don't know Mim Mim, you are involved quite a bit with worship at Frontline, right? Mim: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Matt: You and your Delectable husband. My husband are husband worship, worship leaders at Frontline Church. Um, and there's just something I, I dunno if it's just me or whether you are like this as well, but there's just something about those old school hymns, which are just, I don't know, they're just great, aren't they? With just the words Yeah. And the lyrics and the way they're written and the way they express themselves. Fantastic. Fantastic. So. Let's talk about anger. Shall we? Let's do it. We have not, oh, no. The challenge for me is to see if I can actually get mim to be angry during the lives. No, no, no, it's not, obviously. Um, because mi uh, when she arrived to do the Crowd and we were talking at the start Mims, like, I just don't do anger. I'm not an angry person. Um, Video: no, I didn't [00:32:00] say Mim: that, ma. Matt: Oh, did, did I just misunderstand? No, Mim: I just said I related a lot with Sharon because, um, you know, anger was a negative thing and you know, you shouldn't be angry, so don't be angry. So I was a bit like Sharon just stuffed it all down, but I actually was angry at times. Oh, Matt: okay. Mim: Yeah. I think we all are, aren't we? Matt: I, well I think it's part of being human, really. Um, but yeah, so. Let's talk about anger then. So you, were you, were you like that, uh, anger's a negative thing just because that's the way it was thought of in your house and therefore you shouldn't be, uh, angry? Was that the way you were brought up? Mim: Yeah, I think it was, you know, taken from those verses in the Bible of, you know, do not, you know, have a hot temper and you know, so anger that the Bible is saying is wrong, is explosive and harmful and doesn't have a good outcome. [00:33:00] So that's the kind of anger. But I think, you know, you either are that extreme where you end up kind of in fights or shouting at people or we British people stuff it all down. We're not angry at all and I think, you know, it's hard to do anger. Well. I think that's the challenge. Matt: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? There's, this whole thing is called anger management, how to manage your anger. Um, uh, the, it's funny 'cause I, I didn't grow up, uh, in a Christian family, right? So I didn't grow up with the Bible verses that it's a sin to be angry and the misunderstanding that comes with those. And I thought Sharon actually did a good job of addressing that. We will get to that point, but. When I was a kid growing up, uh, I, um, I was quite a timid kid, uh, but my mum knew that if I got angry I just, I was like the incredible hook. I mean, I didn't turn green and burst out my trousers, but I, I, it's like I changed [00:34:00] personality, Do you know what I mean? And everything just, I just so mist. And, and so I used to do, um, judo when I was a kid, right. And, uh, we had to go to these as part of it, you know, but, and, and the reason mom shipped me off to judo, 'cause I got bullied and she just got bored of me getting, coming home, you know, saying I didn't have any dinner or anything that, that day. And she's like, you just, we need to get you to do something about this. This is my mum. I'm very stoic. There's a problem, let's fix it. So, ships me off to Judo and I go to do these judo lessons and, um. Uh, we have these competitions and I'm just like, yeah, fight. We'll fight. I'm just gonna lie on the floor. You can win. So my mum, uh, this is a story she tells me because I don't really remember it, but my mum would actually take me off to the side of the ring before my fights and get me angry. She knew what to say and how to make me angry because if she, she knew if I was angry I would just go out there and I was just this different kid and I would win all of the fights. And so all the medals [00:35:00] I've got from uh, all the judo medals that I have somewhere, uh, are basically as a result. 'cause my mum made me angry. Video: Right. Wow. One way to do it. Matt: So yeah. Welcome to Matt's childhood. Uh, there's a lot to unpick right there, isn't it? A lot to unpick. So did you, because obviously I didn't grow up with this, it's a sin to be angry thing, but I I think when you read verses like, do, do not be. You can see why I suppose people have that kind of thinking and why. Why do you think that's dangerous thinking? Mim: Oh, 'cause like Sharon said, I think if you don't, I think actually anger at the root of anger is always something that does actually need addressing, and if you don't address it, it just stays there and festers. And it actually can just get worse inside of you. So, mm. Um, anger is a, I'm gonna get all like psychological on you now Matt: you go for it. So Mim: anger, [00:36:00] anger is the secondary emotion. So anger is always, is never just purely anger on its own. It's is as a result of a fear or a threat to a basic human need. So that's where we get hangry when we're hungry. Matt: Ah. So part of our Mim: basic human needs, we need to eat, we need to drink, we need to feel loved, we need to feel safe and secure. And if we don't feel those things, we can get angry because of it. Um, so I think, you know, it's, if you ignore anger, then you are not addressing something that's, you know, that you are missing, that's missing one of your basic human needs. Matt: That's really interesting. So anger is a secondary emotion. Yeah. In other words, it's a warning sign that something else is afoot. Video: Yeah. Yeah, Matt: absolutely. That's interesting. 'cause Dave Connolly, I can't remember who I was talking about this the other day, with maybe John Harding, Dave Connolly, who was one of the founding pastors of Frontline. He's a very good friend of mine. He's just such an all around awesome dude. He's been on Crowd quite a bit. Um, he [00:37:00] said to me years ago, Matt, the issue is never the issue, but it is a good place to start. And I think it's such a, such sage advice. Right. And I, in my head, I'm thinking, he's talking to me about, you know, if your wife's annoyed with you, uh, kind of, you know, marriage advice. But I think it's just generally good advice. Yeah. Uh, that actually the issue is never the issue, but it's a good place to start. So what you are saying is if you are feeling angry, which is the issue, then start there and understand why you are angry, which is the real issue. Yeah. And, and work on that. Okay. Okay. I like that that anger is a secondary emotion, but what do you think about this idea? Then again, Sharon touched on it and um, I thought she actually did it really well. This whole idea of God's anger, God getting angry. Mim: Yeah. Yeah. I think God has, like she was saying, he has a right to be angry sometimes, doesn't he? And that is a, it's never a wrong kind of anger. So I think she was right. If you know [00:38:00] we are damaging each other or what he has made, then of course he's gonna be angry. 'cause he loves us too much not to be. Um, and I don't think God then just, you know, annihilates us all because of that. You know, he's gracious, isn't he? He gives us lots of chances. He reminds us of things. He sends people our way to kind of help us with the things that, you know, he wants us to, um, work on. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. But yeah, it's a funny thing, isn't it, to imagine an all loving God to be angry. It just, it's like she was saying the two sides of a coin. It's hard to imagine the two together. Matt: Yeah, it is. It's funny, isn't it, because. Again, she touched on in the talk that one of the things that really, uh, winds people up is they see a lot of suffering and injustice in the world, and they're like, well, why does God not do any anything? In other words, why is God angry, not angry about this? Right. [00:39:00] And dealing with it yet, on the other hand, when they read stories about God's anger, they're like, well, that's a bit wrong, isn't it? That he got angry about it? And so I I, I thought that was quite an interesting Drta position that she'd brought up because, um, I, I'd not really thought about it in those terms before, like, yeah, you're right. Actually, we, on one hand we want God to be angry, but on the other hand, we don't want God to be angry. Uh, and so it's kind of a catch 22 situation, isn't it? Um, Mim: we, yeah, we do the same as well though, don't we? We get really angry about something, but then we don't do anything about it. Mm-hmm. So we all know people like that, that get really riled up and you think, well, what, what are you actually doing about that? Matt: Mm-hmm. So how do you, um. Well, before I get into that, let me finish this whole God thing off a little bit. Okay. Do you think it's a bit of a leading question. Uh, do you think then that, um, as church, as Christians, we talk a lot about the love of God, right? [00:40:00] We do. We talk about a lot of, you know, uh, God's love, God's love for us, and quite rightly so, uh, because it's, it's the gospel. It's the good news. It's the story of why Jesus came for God so loved the world that he, you know, sent Jesus. But we don't often talk about God's wrath or wrath or anger. Um, and I wonder why that is. Mim: I think it's a New Testament thing, isn't it? Mm-hmm. So, like Sean was saying, now, you know, when Jesus came and, and took all of that upon himself, we kind of, we don't need to worry about that anymore in a sense. We, we shouldn't take it for granted, but. God is not gonna come and beat us down with a big stick if we do something wrong because of Jesus and what he did for us. So I think the pressure's off in that sense. Matt: Mm, that's a good point. Although I think, um, I've made jokes in the past, right? [00:41:00] Where people have said something and I've just kind of mockingly sort of stepped away from them and said, I don't want to be near you when the lightning strikes. Right. You know, that, you know, that kind of mocking, like you're gonna get zapped for saying that type of thing. Uh, which is a bit like, uh, actually God's gonna zap you for that. And it's kinda like, oh, hang on a minute, maybe my theology is a little bit messed up. Mim: Oh, so you fault theology there in that? Matt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I need to deal with that. The issue's not the issue. I'm, anyway, we should get into that. So, um. So you, uh, you've got angry. I've got angry, right? And Sharon talked about how to deal with anger a little bit in the talk, which I thought was great. And she, um, she meant, she talked about can we be angry and yes we can. And there's righteous anger and there's unrighteous anger. In other words, there's anger, which is, which makes sense, like when we see injustices and she talked about people getting trafficked. Um, the, [00:42:00] but she talked about how to deal with anger and the first step is admitting that you are angry, which I thought was an interesting statement because for me, I think this is probably the hardest thing to do. I dunno if you found that. Mim: Yeah. I think anger is such a big emotion, isn't it? It's one of the big ones. So you feel it really strongly. Um, and I think you can go to zero to a hundred in seconds with anger. Video: Yeah. Mim: And that, and I think that's, that's where the Bible, um, talks about, you know, quick tempered and, you know, be slow. Slow to, what did I write down? Quick to listen. Slow to speak. Yeah. Very often when you get angry you just see red and that's it. Gone like you were saying. So mist, um, with your fights and things. So yeah, I think, um, the first step is just stopping yourself and we kind of, um, one of our psychologists that work taught us an acronym called stop. Um, so the S is for literally stop. So if you feel yourself getting angry, [00:43:00] stop before it gets to that red zone. Um, T is just take a step back and take a deep breath. And when we take a deep breath. That stimulates our parasympathetic nervous system and it calms us down. Matt: Yep. Mim: So it's the, it's the part of our nervous system that stops you from reacting so strongly. So when you feel threatened, you wanna go, ah, fight or run away. That fight or flight. So it stops that and calms it down and allows you to think a bit more clearly. Um, always observed. So what are you, what are you thinking? What has made you so angry? What's underneath it? What's the threat? What need have you got? Or how have you felt attacked? Um, and then p is proceed. So once you thought about it a bit more and thought, oh, that's the reason why now do what you need to do about it. Matt: Mm-hmm. Mim: So in a bit more of a thought through way Matt: Yeah. A bit more of a mindful way. Yeah. That's really interesting. Yeah. So that was a psychologist teaching that at work. Video: Yeah, yeah, [00:44:00] yeah. Like Matt: it, yeah, Video: like it, Matt: I would never have thought of that, but that's cool. I think it's interesting, isn't it, that this whole idea of the simplicity of stopping and breathing. Mim: Yeah. Matt: Um, can change a lot of simple things, you know, this whole, and it, and I find that this is true because, um, I, I find it fascinating, should I say, because of the story of how God formed man. So he forms him from the dust of the earth and then he breathes life into his nostrils. And it's this whole breath of life thing. And there's a really interesting story in the gospels where Jesus breathes on the disciples. It's like a symbol of the Holy Spirit has come. Uh, and there's just something quite divine in the way that God has made us, where we just stop and breathe in, like we're breathing in God somehow and we see things from a slightly different perspective. And it's a really simple thing to do, but has actually profound effects. Yes. Uh, just stop. [00:45:00] Do you know what I mean? And I, I, I need to be taught that lesson on quite a regular basis, though I'm not gonna lie. I dunno if you're like me. Uh, or whether or, or not. No. Mim: Down a bit of doom. It all comes out later. Matt: So how do, I mean that's how the psychologist has to deal with anger, but how do you deal with it? Like in the context of marriage or with the kids, for example? Mim: Uh, so with my little boy, he gets angry really quickly. Um, and very often I get caught up in the, what he's actually screaming about, and then I have to take a step back myself and go, actually, he's probably not angry about that. It's something else. So, and he just needs a cuddle. He just needs some physical touch. And then he'll cry and tell me what's actually wrong. So it's. You know, if we, if I start to go into it with him by, oh, what is it? What are you angry about? Stop shouting, blah blah. And it just [00:46:00] fuels it bigger and bigger and bigger. But if I give him a hug, it just kind of diffuses it. Yeah. So that's how I deal with it with my kids. Um, myself. I have to not let it fester and build up inside. So I have to take some time. I can't just say something straight away 'cause it will come out wrong. I need to take that step back and think about it and go, right, what is it? What was it that I was actually angry about? What made me angry? Why is that? Why am I so angry? Oh, maybe pray about it. God, show me why, you know, is this important? Do I need to bring this up? Or can it be left? Do I just need grace for the situation? Um, so yeah, I need to kind of ponder a little bit and then bring it up. If I still feel that I need to talk about it, then bring it up at a later time. Matt: And do you find that easy? Because one of the things that that implies, right, and this is where I wonder [00:47:00] whether a bunch of people struggle with this, um, is if you are processing stuff and you, you need to talk about it with somebody else, somebody else may have been involved in that conversation. Uh, so I'm gonna pick on your husband. I'm sure he has never made you angry, but I'm just gonna pick on Andy 'cause I can. Um, do you find Ray, that once you have processed it, there's there then becomes an elephant. An elephant, an element, uh, of confrontation where you have to go and talk to that person. And that's actually, if it's your kids, if it's your partner, it's a little bit easier. If it's somebody outside of that inner circle, it actually becomes a little bit trickier, right? Yeah. Um, and so do you, how do you, how do you find that that whole confrontation side of things. Mim: Awful. I hate confrontation. I hate conflict. I'm a don't rock the boat. Peacekeeper hate it. Absolutely hate it. My heart goes mad. I'm sweating. It's horrible. It's [00:48:00] just disgusting. Yeah. Um, but I am learning to do it more and more. Mm. It's taken me a long time. Mm. Um, I think, I think it's really important to state your heartfelt intention with it. If you're gonna have a difficult conversation with anybody, they need to know why you're doing it. Mm. It's not just 'cause you wanna have a go at them or pull them up on, on something or tell 'em off. It's because you've got an underlying. Value or a goal or something that's gonna be worthwhile, that's gonna come out of it. And I think that can make a difference. Mm. But obviously you can't, you can't account for how the other person's gonna react and you are not really responsible for how the other person reacts. Really. You can't, you can't control that. So, but I think if you do it in the right way, then. You've done the best you can. Matt: Yeah, no, very good. Because there are, I mean, let's be real, there are times where you are [00:49:00] actually gonna have to do the confrontation thing to deal with the anger, uh, and to process it. It's just, you can't get away with it. Um, and you know, you, you read in the gospels, there's a story isn't there of Jesus where he goes into the temple. He is like, it's like he is not happy, uh, that, you know, they've, they in effect have turned what is the house of God, you know, a place of worship and community into, uh, a, a den of thieves. He called it, you know, where they were robbing money off people, basically poor people and ripping them off. Um, and he just goes in and he's angry and he instantly ba turns the tables over and all that. And he drives the money changes out of the, uh, out of the church, doesn't he? And, um. And yet with a few verses later, you see him, uh, and kids are coming to him and sitting on his, on his knee just chatting away. And I think there has, there, I think there are some things, uh, certainly the, the righteous things that we have to confront, you know, like the trafficking of people, the [00:50:00] injustice of things like that, that we have to confront, uh, and we have to get involved with. Um, and, and I like what, what Sharon said about how, um, God gets angry when his people are being mistreated, uh, or, which I think is a really interesting thing, isn't it? If you think about another example here, right? The Apostle Paul. So Paul is a chap that writes most of the New Testament. And his story is quite fascinating because he is, in the early days, he's very anti-Christian. Uh, there are a few deaths in the New Testament, which Paul has a, a hand in. Yeah, let's just put it that way. Um, and so he's not a very pleasant chap, and the Christians are actually scared of him, uh, and very fearful of this guy. Um, and on the road to Damascus, Jesus appears to, to, to, well, he was Saul then Jesus appears to this guy and he goes, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting [00:51:00] me? Not why are you persecuting the church? Not why you be in a loner over here, not even Saul. You might want to go, you know, give your life to me. It's just like, no, no, I'm stopping some persecution right now. I'm ha I'm having a con. Jesus himself appears to a chap on the road to talk to him about why he is persecuting the church so badly, uh, because I think Jesus felt the need sort of get involved with that sort of, that. That anger at, at being mistreated. Now it just so happens, Paul, in the middle of that, has sense enough to go, maybe there's more to this Christian message than I first thought. I should find out a little bit about it. Uh, and starts to call Jesus Lord, which I think is an interesting turnaround. But for me there's, there are these stories aren't there where there's this sort of righteous indignation and something has to happen. You can't just sit back and do nothing. Mim: And do you like the way that Jesus actually addressed the underlying issue as well? Why are you persecuting [00:52:00] me? He didn't say, why are you being so angry and killing lots of people? It was 'cause that's what he was actually doing. But actually it, he was addressing his anger towards God and yeah, Matt: really interesting, isn't it? Mim: That's the heart of it, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Matt: Really interested. And that's what God does with us when we go to him with our anger issues, is he'll point them out. Right. Um, and sometimes just, sometimes that means you have to do something. Uh, and you have to get involved and you have to act, especially when other people are being mistreated. Uh, God is not okay with that. Um, that's a really interesting one. I don't know. I feel like we could talk about this all night because I'm just starting to get going. I just find the whole topic quite fascinating. Uh, because like you, I don't, I dunno, I don't normally struggle with anger, anger, personally. I think I have my angry moments and I do go from zero to a hundred miles an hour quicker than a quick thing. Un unbelievable. That's it. Um, but if I [00:53:00] think of the things that make me angry in a, in a good way, it tends to be injustice. Uh, or, you know, somebody somewhere is being mistreated and it's not me. It's somebody else being mistreated. Do you know what I mean? And you can see that, and you can understand that in. And that's wrong. So, Mim? Yes. Uh oh. Nicola put here in the comments. Um, what did she write? Anger is like a bind weed. It grows up and plants it grows up and plants and slowly takes over and is incredibly hard to get rid of. Very insightful, Nicola. It is. It's like a weed, isn't it? In a, in other words. And those things are hard to get rid of if you don't deal with it. So, um, what would you say to someone who's watching, uh, the livestream now who maybe does struggle with angle? Where's a good place to stop? Mim: Oh, I would just come to God with it first and just say, God, just be honest. This is me. This is what I'm struggling with. [00:54:00] Please help me in it. I dunno where to start. You just, I just love being really, really honest with God. He loves it. He loves it when we're honest. Um, and, you know, then just seek out, seek out some help. Um. You know, you can carry on praying about it, but I have had quite a lot of counseling in my life. I know lots of people who've had counseling can be really, really helpful. Um, so yeah, maybe talk to a trusted friend or member of of family and then just seek out some help for it. Um, 'cause it is such a big emotion and it's really difficult to get control of if you don't feel like you're in control of it. So don't, Mike Sharon said, don't suffer on your own. Don't feel like it's got a hold of you forever. Just get some help. Matt: Yeah, that's a good idea. 'cause the fallout's not just on you, is it? No. And there's, there's people around you that it affects and, and, and so it's good to deal with it. Um, top advice there from mim. Thank you so much for joining me Mim. Uh, good to have got your microphone working. Yay. [00:55:00] Good to deal, uh, with this whole topic. Um, if you are, uh, wanting to get in touch with, if you'd like to know more, um, I'm gonna put the thing on the screen. There you go. You can get a hold of us at Crowd Church, uh, on all the social media, um, Instagram, Facebook, or you can get a hold of us on the website, www dot Crowd Church. We would love to talk to you, uh, or pray for you if there's anything you'd like us to pray about, um, or you want to talk to us about, uh, especially around this whole area of anger, uh, because it is such a big thing, uh, such a big deal to get it right before God and, uh, and just be, just be right in it. Um. Next week. Mim, do you know what's coming up? I know the answer, but I thought I'd ask you. Video: No, I don't actually. Matt: That's just me setting you up. Mim: Uh, Matt: so Mim: it was pointing and this time it's not coming back. Matt: We're not doing the pointing thing this time. Uh, so no, I just realized I didn't tell you what's coming up next week. So that's on me. Um, next week, James Sloan is talking [00:56:00] about what does the Bible say about living a life on purpose? And, uh, we've got Dan Orange hosting next week for that topic. Uh, there you go, Matt. Masses written in the coming. Thanks for tonight, everyone. What's happening next week? I've just told you mate. And we've just told you what's happening next week. Uh, maybe we should just go to Matt. Matt, what's happening next week? Write it in the comments. Uh, so what's the bible say about living a life on purpose with James Sloan, uh, the week after that? Just so you know, we've got what does the Bible say about God? Oh, yes. Uh, with Dan Rogers. That's gonna be immense. John Harding is hosting that one. And then the week after that, what does the Bible say about suffering? John Ho's actually doing that talk. You know, it's gonna be good. So we're getting into some meaty topics, uh, over the next few weeks, that's for sure. So make sure you like and subscribe to all the stuff we're doing here at Crowd. So you get and click the notification button. So when we go live, it'll come up on your phone or on your tablet or on your computer, wherever you watch it, however you watch it, whether you watch it live or on [00:57:00] catch. It's been great that you've been with us. Mim. Any closing thoughts, comments before we head out? Oh Mim: no, I think, you know, we've talked about loads of stuff, haven't we? There's just loads to say on anger. But yeah, I hope everyone has a great week and control your anger. Stop. Before you do anything, Matt: stop. I feel like we need to come up with a song. Just say stop. Mim: Oh, thank you for having me. Matt: Oh, you're an absolute legend. It's been great having you, uh, on the, the live streaming as always. Uh, as always. Um, so that's gonna be it from us. We are gonna play one more worship song. Once that song is finished, the live stream will end automatically. Uh, please feel free to stay around in the comments and just chat away. It'd be great to hear from you, whether you're on Facebook or YouTube. Thank you so much, uh, for being with us. Uh, and again, in closing, congratulations to Manchester City, [00:58:00] uh, and Liverpool. You made us proud, so I like that. Uh, but no, uh, have a fantastic week. Like I say, we will see you next week, Mim. God bless you. Have a fantastic week yourself. Bye for now.