What Does The Bible Say About Truth?

What does the Bible say about truth_ (1) Matt: [00:00:00] Well, good evening and welcome to the Cl Cloud, the Crowd Church Live Stream. That's not a good start, Phil. I'm not gonna lie. Phil: What? What am I on? What are you talking about? Matt: Yeah, something like that. Welcome to the Crowd Church Livestream. We are an online church. Uh, it's great that you are here. Beside me is my good friend, a very talented all round good egg, which is Phil Watson. How are we doing, Phil? We're doing all right. Stable. Phil: Very, very good. It's great to see everybody and we, well, the funny thing about doing this is of course we can't see everybody. We're in one respect. That's very true. Talking into a vacuum. But we know, 'cause we were just chatting about it before we sort of came on air that some people might be watching this live. You might be watching it on is, I mean, I, I'm not as young as you Matt. What, what, what? Can you watch this on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. Matt: [00:01:00] Yeah. Phil: And you can just find it by Googling Crowd Church. And eventually you, you, you'd stumble across us. Matt: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You, you'd stumble across is exactly the right. So Phil: if I, if I said something like, hello, good day. Bon na s it's possible. Look to people around the world, and I haven't done every language there. I'm so sorry. Would've gone. Oh yeah. I know what he's saying. Enos, I've just said alone to about a billion people. Matt: Exactly. Matt Color. It's amazing. It is. And we were talk, talking actually. Uh, when we look at the stats and we see where people are watching from, uh, and how they join in, we obviously have people from the uk. We have people from the states. Uh, we have, um, people from India, from the Philippines, I mean all over the world. Come and, uh, come and join in with Crowd Church, uh, throughout the week, whether it's live or through catchup. So it's great that you could be with us. Bruce Watson, who I'm assuming is [00:02:00] a relative, uh, said, I've stumbled across you. Phil: He's my brother. And oddly enough. If he, he used to live in Pakistan many, many years ago. So if you happen to be anywhere in Pakistan and you didn't meet my brother when he was there 30 years ago, you missed the street. He taught me a little bit of oo uh, t panny. That means cold water. Quick, quick. And what else did I learn? That was about it. Matt: All useful stuff. Now it's worth pointing out to the, the good people that are watching Crowd that don't actually know that Phil, you are actually a language teacher at a secondary school. Phil: It's true when I'm not on Crowd Church and when I'm not talking about fostering and the 1,577 looked after children in, in, in Liverpool or the hundred 3000 that there are across the uk. I teach German and I teach French, uh, and a little bit of Ari as well. So if, if you are in [00:03:00] Germany, hello, v. Common as as, as frighten me here. Matt: Very good, but apparently I can order a beer when I'm in Germany and that's about as far as I can go. Phil: Yeah, that's all you need. Matt: That's all you need. That's all you need. So today we are talking about truth. What does the Bible say about truth? Sharon is sharing that with us. Uh, then we're gonna have a brief time of worship. We're gonna also have a time of Prayer for the situation in Ukraine and the many of the wars around the nation, around the world at the moment. And then Phil and I will be doing Conversation Street, which is basically where we get to talk through your questions and comments that happen during the live stream. The whole thing is gonna last about an hour, so we'll be finished by about seven o'clock. We promise not to give any live updates on the match, uh, because you know, everyone's just a little bit tense and nervous. All I'm, I'm, I dunno about you Phil. I'm praying for a draw that would be ideal for me, but [00:04:00] that's, Phil: I, I want 'em both to lose. Matt: It's not likely, is it? So, yeah. Yeah. It's not like, no, no. I need to explain the rules of football maybe one day. Um, so the, those of you watching outside of this particular part of the world, there is a very important football match going on at the moment. Manchester United are playing Manchester City. Uh, and uh, yeah. We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, uh, we'll, we'll leave it there. So Christine's in the comments. Hey, Christine, Matt's in the comments. He said, don't mention the f Sorry Matt, too late. Should have read the comment first. Sharon's in the comments, which is great. And of course Bruce is in the comments as well. So, uh, do say hello if you are watching this with us live. Uh, and if you're watching it on Catchup, you can also still comment in the live stream. Uh, sorry. You can still comment in the comments, and we do read them and we do respond to them. So, without further ado, we are gonna jump straight into this week's talk. What does the Bible say about truth now? We are doing a series at the moment [00:05:00] called, what does the Bible say About, well, we look at some really interesting topics. Um, like, well, you did one Phil, didn't you? What does the Bible say about children, for example? Yeah, we've done, um, uh, Sarah's in the comments waving at me and Matt says, sit here, three one up. So, uh, that, that, it's hard to come back from that. Uh, so, um, so yeah, so, uh, what does, you did one, what does the Bible say about children? We've looked last week. Uh, we did. What does the Bible say about cancer? And I know there's, let me tell you, to everyone who's contacted us this week, it's been great to be in touch with you. Uh, and we will continue to be in touch with you, continue to pray. Um, and thank you for all the comments that came in during the week. So this week, what does the Bible say about truth with Sharon? We're gonna play the talk now, uh, and then we'll be back in just a few, well, about 15, 20 minutes. So here's the talk.[00:06:00] Sharon: Today's subject is what does the Bible say about truth? I say this every time, but this is a massive subject and I'm only just skimming the surface today, [00:07:00] but hopefully we'll be able to pick up on some of the bits I can't cover here in Conversation Street later. So let's start by defining truth. The dictionary defines truth as that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality. Now, when I married Matt, we agreed that in our marriage we would only ask each other questions that we were prepared to hear an honest answer to. So for example, I wasn't gonna ask, does my bum look big in this? Unless I was prepared to hear something that I didn't want to hear. We knew that the Bible says to tell the truth, and we wanted to always encourage each other to do that. And here's one of the verses that speaks about telling the truth. It's from Ephesians four. And says, therefore, each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor. For we are all members of one body. Have a look at these verses, though also from Ephesians four. Instead speaking the truth in love, we will [00:08:00] grow to become in every respect the mature body of Him. Who is the head that is Christ. The Bible says, we need love to go with our truth, because truth without love is needlessly hurtful, but love without truth leaves us in danger of going down the wrong path. So the Bible tells us to tell the truth, but it says a whole lot more about the subject than that. It makes a lot of claims about the nature of truth. In other words, it makes a lot of truth claims. Before I get into some of the specific truth claims of the Bible, I want to look into the subject of truth claims. Truth claims can be subjective or objective. Now on these live streams after the bit we call Conversation Street, we used to end with a bit of a silly question, just for fun. The question could be something like, which is the the best Chocolate bar, Snickers or Kit Kat? And people would write in the comments which chocolate bar they thought was the best, and whichever two people [00:09:00] were hosting the live stream that week would get into a friendly argument and a bit of banter about which was best. The answer to that question, and most of the questions that we asked in that section was subjective. The answer to the question about the chocolate bar doesn't depend on the actual chocolate bar. It depends on your opinion. So I could make the claim that Snickers is the better chocolate bar, but that's just my opinion. And actually next week I might change my mind and say that Kit Kat's the Better Chocolate Bar. If, however, I say that Snickers has the higher percentage of sugar than Kit Kat, I would be making an objective truth claim. My truth claim is either objectively true or objectively false. The answer doesn't depend on my opinion. It depends on reality. Subjective claims depend on the subject, on the person making the claim. Objective claims depend on the object, the thing the [00:10:00] claim is being made about. So are the truth claims of the Bible. Objective or subjective? Francis Schaeffer, who was a theologian philosopher and pastor had something to say about this. He said that people tend to organize truth claims as if they're in two stories of a house with objective truth, uh, on the ground floor and subjective truth on the first floor. So on the ground floor, we tend to put things like maths and science. And on the first floor we put personal opinions. The problem is, he said, is that sometimes we put things on the wrong floor. He said that in Western culture we tend to put belief about God and morality in with the subjective truth claims on the first floor. You may hear people say things such as, it's great that you believe in God if that makes you happy, but I don't believe in God. You do you and I'll do me beliefs about God and faith are the sort of beliefs we're told we have [00:11:00] to put aside if we want to learn about the real world. There's a disconnect between the two stories of the house, a disconnect between faith and how we're expected to live in the real world. There's a sacred and secular divide in the West. There's not only the tendency of thinking that religious beliefs is subjective, there's also the tendency to think that all beliefs are equal, that all religions lead to God. We're told to be tolerant of other views. Now the old definition of tolerance was to be respectful towards people whose opinions, belief, religions, and so on differ to our own. In other words, tolerance required a disagreement, but a respect towards people. And I think this version of tolerance is quite helpful. It means that we can discuss and debate in order to discover what is really true and what isn't. The Bible encourages us not just to accept the latest ideas [00:12:00] floating around, but to test them to see if they're true. Nowadays, the definition of tolerance seems to have changed, to mean that you have to agree that all views are equal. If you say you think someone's views are wrong or that one particular view is right, you're seen as intolerant or maybe even hateful. So should religious truth claims be put on the first floor with all the subjective truth claims, or should they be on the ground floor with the objective truth claims? I want to show you that religious truth claims are objective, not subjective. For example, the atheist says that there's no God but the Jew, the Muslim, and the Christian say that there is either the atheist is wrong and the others are right, or the Jew, the Muslim, and the Christian are right and the atheist is wrong. The atheist claims that there is no God is either objectively true or objectively false. No one can make it true or false by what they believe. [00:13:00] Now, Christians believe that Jesus is God, whereas Muslims don't believe his God. They can't both be right, but the claim that Jesus is God is either objectively true or objectively false. What we believe about the matter doesn't change the facts. Eastern religions believe that God is not personal, but is a force whereas Christians believe that he is personal. Jesus said this, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. He's basically saying no one can have a relationship with God unless they do it through him. That's either true or false. It's not a matter of opinion. Hopefully you can see that claims about God are not subjective, but objective. They're either objectively true or objectively false. CS Lewis put it this way, Christianity is not a patent medicine. Christianity claims to give an account of the facts to tell [00:14:00] you what the real universe is like. It's account of the universe may be true or it may not. And once the question is before you, then the natural inquisitiveness must make you want to know the answer. If Christianity is untrue, then no honest man will want to believe it. However helpful it might be. If it is true, every honest man will want to believe. Even if it give him no help at all. Francis Schaeffer said, Christianity is not merely, um, religious truth. It is total truth. Truth about the whole of reality with Christianity, the ground floor and the first floor of our house are not unrelated. They're integrated. If God is real and he's the God of the Bible, he has stuff to say about every aspect of our life from who we are as humans, what the problem with the world is, what the solution is. Morality, how to deal with our emotions, how our [00:15:00] relationship should work, money, life after death, how to govern a country. Everything they work together as a united whole. There is no sacred and secular divide. So let's look at some of the specific truth claims from the Bible and a tiny bit about how they relate to life in the real world. The first book of the Bible, Genesis is about the Origin of so many things. It says that God is eternal, that he's always existed, but, and that he created everything and that we can know something of God through from looking at what He's made. Just as you can see something of the artist in their artwork, in the book of Romans, in the Bible it says, for since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen being understood from what has been made so that people are without excuse. When we look up into space or down [00:16:00] into the details of a single cell, it can give us this sense of awe, and one of the things that convinces me of God's existence from creation, other than that there is a creation at all is the DNA in every cell of our bodies. DNA is a long molecule that contains our genetic code. It's an instruction manual for making all the protein in our bodies. It's a language and in every other scenario in life language points to intelligence. And I think DNA points to an intelligent creator, and there are many other things from the physical world that points to a creator. Huro is, is an astrophysicist who through si through science, saw that God must exist. And in his search for God, he ended up becoming a Christian. So what about people? What does the, the Bible say about people? The Bible gives people dignity and worth just from being human because it [00:17:00] says we're made in the image of God. In Genesis, the first book of the Bible, it says, then God said, let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea. And the birds in the sky over the livestock and all the wild animals and over all the creatures that move along the ground. It doesn't matter what race or sex we are, how old or young, or how much we contribute to society, we all have this innate worth and value. And this is the best foundation there is for human rights to sit on and for racial equality. So that all sounds very nice, but we, I think we can all agree that as well as seeing amazing design and beauty in the world, there's also a fair few things that are not too good. Corona wars, people having to flee their countries cancer, child abuse. You get the picture in the previous verses I read, we saw that God gave [00:18:00] people the job of ruling Earth on his behalf. The idea was for us to do this in a trusting relationship with him. He did, after all set up the whole thing and he knows the best way for it all to work. Unfortunately, the first people he made decided to rebel and do things their own way. This then broke their relationship with God and sent the whole of creation into decay. So now, when each of us is born into this world, we grow up having a sense of something being missing. We sense something more than just the physical world, but we can't quite connect. So according to the Bible, the problem in our world is our rebellion, which the Bible calls sin and being cut off from God. This is a problem for every single person. Romans three says, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Society often pits different people against each other, but according to the Bible, the [00:19:00] source of the problem in the world isn't a particular race or color of people. It's not the rich or the poor. It's not men or women. It's our rebellion against God. The problem is in all of us, even those of us that think we're good people, all the good stuff we do, this is what the Bible has to say about it. So all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags. It's no wonder we can't connect with God. He's so perfect and beautiful. How can any of us stand before him if he just lets us off from our sin, from our rebellion? He wouldn't be perfectly just, and if he doesn't, if he doesn't let us off, how can he love us as he wants to? It all sounds a bit depressing, but actually the Bible is good news because God has a solution to the problem of our filthiness and our disconnect from him. He came to earth in human form as Jesus to take the punishment for [00:20:00] our rebellion so he can be just, and so he can reconnect with him, reconnect us with him so that he can love us as he wants to. In the book of Romans, it says, for if while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his son. How much more having been reconciled shall we be saved through his life? God loved us while we were His enemies, and that gives us a great basis for loving everyone, whether or not they agree with us. It gives us a great basis for the original definition of tolerance. The Bible also gives us hope for the future, that one day God's gonna finish what he started and put an end to all suffering and pain. The Bible tells us that we can know truth, not just through scientific study of the world around us, but through God's words and through his spirit in my life. One of the areas of truth, uh, from the Bible that's had the biggest impact is in the area of forgiveness. [00:21:00] In the Bible, God shows us how to deal with our own failings and also when we're hurt by the people. Before I really understood about forgiveness, my mental health wasn't in a great place. Receiving forgiveness has given, um, and giving forgiveness has given me peace with God, peace in myself, and peace with other people, and it's had a knock on effect in all other areas of my life. So to finish this truth I've been talking about isn't just a set of facts to be learned. It's personal. And as I said before, Jesus said that he is truth. All other truth originates from him, and his truth brings freedom and beauty of finish with these words from Jesus. If you hold to my teaching, you're really my disciples, then you'll know the truth, and the truth will set you free. Matt: Thanks babe. [00:22:00] Uh, sorry. Uh, if you don't know if you're new to the live stream, Sharon is in fact my wife. That's why I'm calling a babe. I'm allowed to, no one else is just clarifying that. So what did you think Sharon's taught? What does the Bible say about truth? Well, it's great, wasn't it? Objective truth, subjective truth. We are gonna get into all of that, myself and Phil in just a few short minutes in Conversation Street. So if you've got any questions, I know people have been busy, uh, posting comments, uh, it got very busy around what chocolate bar we prefer. So we'll come all to that, uh, in Conversation Street. But before we do, we just wanna take a few minutes to, um, pray. And we're gonna pray for the Ukraine. If you were with us last week, we used a Prayer, uh, which we are gonna use again now, and it is by 24 7. Pete Greg from 24 7 Prayer. Um, I'm gonna read the Prayer out. The words are gonna come up on the screen. Uh, if you want to, if you, you know, if you, uh, if you, people who pray, then please do join in with us. [00:23:00] Otherwise, uh, just, you know, think about the words as they come up on the screen. After the Prayer has finished, we're gonna go into a time of worship, which is just where we put a song on that you can sing along to, uh, if you so desire. And it's. Obviously safe to do so. The song is called The Lion and the Lamb, and it talks about these sort of opposing states of Jesus, where Jesus is both the lion, which means the king, the victor, the ruler. And he is both. He is also the lamb, the, the, the one who, as Sharon talked about, pay the price for our rebellion and our sin. He was our sacrifice. Uh, and it's good. It's a great song to think about, uh, following this press. So we're gonna, uh, do the Ukrainian Prayer. We're gonna have time of worship. And then Phil and I, we back for Conversation Street in just a few minutes time.[00:24:00] Father God, king of all nations, we cry out to you. Now, for the people of Ukraine, we ask you to rescue those who are vulnerable from the hands of their enemies. That they may live life without fear before you all of their days. Lord have mercy, Lord of lords and Prince of Peace. Our politicians are predicting the biggest war in Europe since 1945, and we simply cry out to. Urgently to write another story in our time. For the dark machinations of evil men give wisdom beyond human wisdom to peacemakers seeking an equitable and less violent way. May politicians exercise the wisdom from above, which is peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, and full of mercy. Lord have mercy. Holy spirit, we [00:25:00] pray for the church in Ukraine, a nation in which 70% of the population call themselves Christian. Give our many brothers and sisters in that nation courage in this crisis that they may proclaim the good news of your kingdom. Bind up. Broken hearts and bring comfort to all who mourn. Lord have mercy. You Lord, make war cease to the end of the earth. You break bows, shatter spears, and burn shields with fire. And so we ask you now to save the lives of many people in Ukraine. Make a peace that is strong and not weak. Deescalate this crisis. We hear of wars and rumors of wars, but you Lord are our rock, our fortress, and our deliverer. Our hope is in you. And so we address the nations now in the name of Jesus. We say, be still and know God. He is [00:26:00] exalted among the nations. He shall be exalted in the earth. Lord have mercy. Video: He is coming on the clouds, kings, and.[00:27:00] Every chain will break his broken hearts. Declare his praise for who can stop the Lord. Our God is the lion, the lion of Jude. He's roaring with power and fighting our battles. Every knee will bow be for him. Our God is the lamb. The lamb will slay for the sin of the world. His blood breaks the chains, and every knee will bow the lion. And.[00:28:00] Open up the gates make way before the king of kings. The God who comes to save is here to set the. For who can stop the Lord? Ight, our God is the lion. The lion of He's roaring with power and fighting our battles every day will bow be for our God is the lamb for the sin of the world. His blood breaks the chains and every will be the lion. And.[00:29:00] You can. Who can stop the Lord? Who can stop the Lord, Lord. Who can stop? The Lord Almighty, who can stop? The Lord Almighty, who can stop? The lordy. Who can stop the, our [00:30:00] God is the lion. The lion of Jude. He is roaring with power and fighting our battles. Every will bow for our God is the lamb. For the, the His blood breaks, the chains, and every bow before the lion will evil bow.[00:31:00] Matt: Well, welcome back to Conversation Street. Uh, it's time for Phil and I to talk about the talk, talk about your comments, uh, and any questions that you may have. So if you've got any questions as we go along. Feel free to post 'em in the chat and we'll try and get to them. But before we do that, there is one clear and obvious question, Phil, that I have based on the chat so far, and that is what is Bruce talking about when it comes to the skips? Phil: Well, this is a very good, uh, example of truth. Matthew my Bruce, and it's a great chance for me to get my point across. 'cause he can't be on, well actually I'll probably start chatting away and his daughter's coming around to our house later. Um, my brother's version of events is in 1978 in the house where we grew up that my parents still live in, which is near Sutton. Mm-hmm. In Surrey or South London, depending on your point of view. [00:32:00] We used to have a pack of crisps when we came home from school at the end of the day. And our preferred packet was almost always skips. And in those days you could only get Skips prawn cocktail. Yeah. I think they branched out into Sweet Corn briefly. Um, and my, I don't remember that brother seems to think that I ate a family pack like a whole, you know, family size pack back in those days. Now that would cost about AP probably, and I'm pretty sure actually I'm gonna say that it's possible, it's possibly true. It's possibly true. I did eat the whole pack and eat him night, but I probably, and this isn't, isn't this is like truth and reconciliation. Yeah. I probably did it outta retaliation for him eating some kp discos the day before. Um, and it becomes this big joke. And I think like so many stories in so many families, no one can actually remember what really happened. But every now and again, say for example, we are together and we're having a meal, I will nick food off his plate and I'll go, that's because you stole all [00:33:00] the KP disco in 1978 and then my food. And he'll go, that's 'cause you two called us stole Chris. And it's, I mean, I'm, I'm being facetious and it is silly and it is funny. But unfortunately if you're not careful, this, this, I mean we get on very well, me and my brother. Uh, but this really well this, but this is how sometimes people fall out. You can't even remember. What you fell out about, but you've decided to take offense. I'm, I'm moving away from truth aren't, I'm on a, I'm on a whole nother biblical topic. Forgiveness, truth, reconciliation. Well, Matt: they're all in there, aren't they? They're all in there. Those topics. Yeah. Yeah. Phil: Folks don't fall out over anything. It's not worth it. Especially not snacks. Matt: So Bruce has written in the comments, this is largely true. I have to say, I have to say that KP Disco's was a much better choice than Skip's. 'cause skips are just all kinds of wrong. I'm not gonna lie. Phil: Once again, you are wrong, Matt. But that's your opinion. And, and isn't it wonderful [00:34:00] when you and I know each other well enough to know your opinion? My opinion, not a problem. Mm-hmm. And we might have a joke and go fact, or we might go truth. We know we are mucking about, um, and going onto this topic, there are occasions when somebody's. Somebody insists on monopolizing the truth, shall we say and go, no, no. What I, what I think is the truth. And you go, yeah, but you've just given it away because you've said think or feel or understand. Then you go, A truth is a known fact. Yeah. Yeah. Not what you think or what you want to be true. And I really appreciated that Prayer for Ukraine. Um, and I am like everybody else, I follow the media. Um, I'm a quite a big fan of history. Mm-hmm. So I feel that, I know that there's something called propaganda. And propaganda is when nation states or large organizations come up with their own version of the truth. 'cause they wanting to think something or feel something. Yeah. And they try and control the [00:35:00] media, don't they? And so I am gonna, I know, I know Putin's a powerful man, but I'm not scared of him and I'm gonna suggest that he, he and his organizations disseminate absolute nonsense Yeah. About Ukraine. And a very good example is 'cause we teach this in re we do the just war theory definition of war is a armed conflict between nations or people groups. And Putin and the Russian government, I don't exactly know who that is, are saying this is not a war, it's a mission. And what they're doing, they're trying to negotiate, they're manipulating language to, to try and explain away what they're doing. And, um. I do pray for peace in Ukraine. I think that, um, if I know we're not here again to talk about evil and suffering, but when human, human beings have free will, and when one nation's collective free will is used to impose and bully and attack [00:36:00] another nation's free will, uh, freedom, uh, and then and their their own sovereignty, that's an abuse of free will. Um, and it's great when people can pray. It's also great when people can, can help, can show whatever form of solidarity, whatever practical help that they can send. Matt: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Totally agree with that, Phil. Totally agree with that Now. So Sharon talked about subjective truth, and she talked about objective truth, didn't she? And she, she uses, um, these two phrases. And so we've just given some examples there of, uh, sort of subjective truth, IE skips, kp discos, uh, Snickers, and marathon bars, for example. Um, all being subjective, truth. And then you've, you, and actually you've talked about that and how, uh, Putin and propaganda is trying to take something which they subjectively think is true to be an objective truth. They're trying to convince the people that this is actually truth, that this is actually reality, uh, [00:37:00] when actually it, it totally isn't. So how have you, um, I mean, I imagine as an re teacher you've had some quite interesting conversations around this whole topic of truth, uh, and, and what people perceive it to be. Phil: Well, you, you are always trying to get, because I say I'm a teacher, you're always trying to get people, young people in particular kids to go look where is your, where's your information from? Mm. And there are various sources that we probably, I mean, we are a similar age, uh, Matt, we probably give more respect and regard to. It's often known as critical thinking. Uh, and so when you get a kid going, no, no, no. I know the truth 'cause I saw it on a TikTok. Um, and I'm, I'm, I'm sure I'm not joking. I'm still going. Yeah, yeah. But who made the TikTok? Yeah. And, and we all know how easy it is to relatively, to manipulate media. I mean, I am a real person. You are a real person. I've met you, you are in the room next door. We are not bots. We are not [00:38:00] fabricated. It would seem an awful lot of effort to go to that, but I, I know that, um. Again, social media, generally, you're thinking how, I don't understand enough about it. You know a lot more about it than me, Matt, but how easy it is to fabricate or to create a, a, um, gossip or rumor through social media and go, you know, this TikTok must be true. Yeah. Because a billion people liked it. You go, that, that doesn't matter. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's a silly example, isn't it? But back in the day, everybody, well, most people on the planet thought the world was flat. Um, and it wasn't. And just because lots of people think something is true, doesn't, doesn't make it make it true. Matt: Yeah. And that was the point Sharon was making, wasn't it? And I think you're right with social media, which is why I think even, uh, with things like the Ukrainian, uh, you know, the war in Ukraine and, and, and all of that sort of stuff, actually be careful where you get your news source from. Um, because social media, social media's a really interesting platform because the more you look at something, [00:39:00] the more it feeds you that very thing. So if what you are looking at is, is, is not, let's say that the whole picture, for example, if you look at right wing politics, all it's gonna show you is right wing politics. If you look at left wing politics, all it's gonna show you is left wing and you miss the whole picture, don't you, going forward. And, uh, and we saw that actually, uh, dare I say with another powerful man that maybe shouldn't have been in power, which was Donald Trump, but let's not go there. Do you know what I mean? But he used social media to, to his advantage in that way, because you can do that, you can bring that propaganda through social media. So I like this question, you know, where, what's your source of truth? Because that's a really interesting question, isn't it? And the other thing that Sharon talked about, um, although she didn't talk about it in the video, but Sharon and I talk about this a lot, is this whole idea of worldview. Uh, you know, this phrase, have you come across this phrase, worldview? What, I guess how Explain, explain it then. So yeah, so worldview is the lens at which you look at through the world. So [00:40:00] today we had, um, at Frontline, uh, which is a church both you and I attend, and it's part of, you know, what crowd's part of, uh, we had Chiney McDonald talking about her, um, her book called God Is Not a White Man, which I think is, is a great book and you should definitely read it. And, uh, we talked about, you know, what does the Bible say about racism with Tony a few weeks ago? Um, but, uh, a worldview would be, I am a white, heterosexual, middle class. Man living in the north of England, I have a certain way of viewing the world, right? And even, I mean, and you are similar, but even you and I have different lenses at which we look at the world. You are a teacher, um, I'm, I'm, I do business. And so that automatically brings a different way of, not maybe not massive differences, but there are certainly some differences. Um, and so we talk about worldview. And so yes, we. I think when it comes to understanding these things, especially when it comes to tolerance and difference, you have to [00:41:00] understand the lens at which you are looking at through the world. Uh, and this was one of Chin's points that actually there are different lenses. There are different. She, she, she used a phrase mosaic, didn't she? That where Yeah, there are different people, different cultures and, you know, missionaries for years would go and, um, anglicize people, that's what they did. They taught people how to eat with a knife and fork rather than celebrating diversity in culture, which was, you know, uh, perhaps the bit that was missing. And so there is this, this lens at which you view the world and you have to understand that I think, you know, we have a lens at which we understand the gospel, right? Yeah. Phil: It def definitely, I mean, I, I've, when I've worked in various, uh, areas of, of, of industry, shall we say, we used to talk about 360 degree, um, analyses, and so I can see the world from my view, but what, what does it look like to be, to, what does it look like, to look at me, if that doesn't sound ridiculous, so I can tell you what it looks like to teach 32 kids. A classroom, [00:42:00] classroom, but what are those, what's their experience of that? And this, this happens in all your, in all your relationships. So again, to go back to the rather daft example of me and my brother's crisps, um, he had one view, I had one view I expect to harm. Mom and dad had another, uh, amount of information to input into this. Should we decide to go back to 1978 and discuss it? And I think within families, and I know we've both got kids, um, you have to understand that young people, particularly kids, they've got their view of family life. And you might go, no, that's not true. That's not right. But it's actually what they see from where they are. And it's, it's legitimate because it's their viewpoint, but it might not be the whole truth, which is what, when you first said, oh, let's talk about truth. I did think about, you know, when you see a court TV show in, in, in the uk, and I dunno if it's the same everywhere. You have to swear on a Bible. I think you can swear on any holy book or no holy book now. But you promise to say the truth. The whole truth and nothing but the truth. [00:43:00] And I think we have to be careful. 'cause I think sometimes what happens, I thought Sharon's uh, talk was really interesting. There's lots to think about there that I, I might go, no, this is the truth. And you might go, yeah, yeah. It could be as far as you are concerned. It could be the truth. Your perspective is your perspective, and that's legitimate is your lived experience. I've never lived the life of a black man or a black woman or a woman. And so I, I have to go, okay, that's your lived experience. Mine is different. It doesn't negate what they're saying, but that doesn't mean, and so it could be true. It doesn't mean it's the whole truth. Video: Mm-hmm. Phil: Um, and it doesn't mean what's the other bit. Yeah. Nothing but the truth. This is the other thing that I think. All human beings have a tendency to do, which is, I will give you some truth if it suits me and reflects what on me, but I might not give you the whole truth. And then I might add some bits, uh, just, just to make me look less bad. And I think within our relationships, and I like you were saying about you and Sharon is, uh, Sharon said in the talk, didn't she? I'm only gonna ask you a question about me if I'm prepared [00:44:00] to, to cope with the answers. She had a classic one about, you know, does my bum look big in this? Or whatever it was. And I think within, if you know, if you're watching this, whatever your relationships are with other people, if you lie the opposite of truth, your relationships will break down. Because most people can, in my experience, they can cope with arguments, they can cope with disagreements, they can cope with somebody perhaps not treating 'em very well. But once you start lying. Um, you destroy trust. Mm. Video: And Phil: then no relationship survives, which is on a macro level what we've got in Ukraine and Russia. You are lying. How can we trust you when we know you're lying? Yeah. But, uh, most of us, we can pray, we can do things about Ukraine. I know, but most of us live in a much more, um, shall we say, smaller environment. Mm. So with your partner, your children, your wider family, your work colleagues. Uh, I, to me, one of the things about truth, it talks in the Bible a lot about truth, doesn't it? About truth setting you free, but also speak [00:45:00] truthfully. Yeah. But speak it with love. So it doesn't mean you can go into work tomorrow and go, the truth is, I don't like you and I'm gonna tell you why. Although I really would quite like to do that. It that actually isn't very loving. And so with your partner, uh, your wife, your husband, whoever, you know, you live with, your kids, it's like going, right. If I tell them this truth, is it gonna help them or not? Is it gonna be a blessing to them or not? It's um. Truth and love, the more you think about it, you go, yeah. You've gotta have them both in equal measures. 'cause sometimes you do have to tell people, I guess we'd call 'em unpleasant truths. Yeah. But by Matt: confrontation Yeah. Phil: Thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's part of confrontation. But it, i it, if you're not doing out of love, and I guess one way of looking at that is if, if it doesn't hurt you or cost you probably you should be quiet. Matt: Probably. That's a really interesting point though. And you know, this whole idea that actually lies break down relationships, which if you, one of the things that I hear quite a lot, [00:46:00] um, and certainly I hear it from people who would argue against the Bible being objectively true. It's either true, like Sharon said, it's either true or isn't. And for Christians, you know, the it is true. Jesus is the truth. Video: Yeah. Matt: And so one of the things that I've heard is, you know, you, you, you. You can be your own truth or make your own truth, or even, um, there statements like, well, there is no truth. Which, if you think about it, it kind of def, it's a self-defeating argument. It's self refute. Do you know what I mean? Because Yeah, you can't say there is no truth because that's a definitive thing, therefore, what you've said is not true. Yeah, yeah. And it's not true. You kind of go round and round in circles with some of those things. Um, but yeah, I, I, I just wonder why it is that the failure of truth or lying just has such a profound impact on society. I mean, I would argue, I suppose, from a Christian worldview that actually, if Jesus is truth, then actually you can [00:47:00] understand why lies have such a profound impact on society. Do you know what I mean? And, and why that is so very, very bad and to sort of destroy truth or to make truth out, to be non-existent. You, you can't get away from the fact that actually lies. Wreck things, right? Phil: Lies, wreck things. And, and you know, from a biblical per perspective, go right back to the Garden of Eden. Uh, which, you know, there's another debate, you know, is that a literal story or a metaphorical story? Forget about that for a minute. It's the, it's the fact that Adam and Eve tried to deceive God, um, became, you know, began to lie, began. And then you see that the history of God's people, the Jewish people, the Old Testament is, is a, it's, it's almost a narrative. It's like a, to say it's a soap opera is ridiculous, but it's almost like, uh, the people's relationship with God and God's relationship with the people and how they would be, uh, get on with each other, be, have a close and positive relationship, and how they would fall out with each other.[00:48:00] That's a kind of very glib summary of the Old Testament and that, and that's almost a summary of the New Testament too. And it, it's. Say, I come back to it again. When you, when you lie or you try to deceive somebody, you destroy relationship. And whilst you might get what you want in the short term, I can't help thinking that long term. It's a really bad strategy. Um, yeah, Matt: I totally agree with you. I totally agree. Phil: Certainly within, within your own family, I can see if, you know, we're bouncing between world politics, aren't we? And what happens in my semi-detached house, just off Penny Lane, but in, in, in a, in a worldview, you might go, oh, you know, that world leader will get what they want because they'll be powerful, which I suppose is their ultimate aim. Um, but in your own relationships, if you are lying and deceiving, you are controlling and you are not actually letting anyone see who you really are. You're not giving your yourself away. Um, and I, I, I've gotta say that, I think that with, I know [00:49:00] if, if this is the same with you, ma'am. Sure it was. 'cause I know your kids, which is kids, if you're gonna do something wrong. Fair play, but if you lie about it mm-hmm. It's a hundred times worse. And I, you know, silly example, remember saying to this kid at school, put your chewy in the bin. Um, she wasn't allowed to chew gum. And she said, I'm not chewing gum. And you thought, oh no, this has gone from a mild irritation of your chewing gum to you lying to me. And then it all escalates out of all proportion. And then ultimately this kid got into quite a lot of trouble and she went, all I was doing was chewing gum. And you go, no, no, no, miss, you know, you've missed, you know, you are missing the point there and you are deliberately missing the point 'cause you're still lying because it's got nothing to do with chewing gum and everything to do. And it breaks relationship and if somebody breaks relationship in one area, it's very hard to trust them in another. Yeah, Matt: no, that's, that's very, very true. Now, Sharon has put here in the comments, um, that worldview's providers with a background theory of how the universe came [00:50:00] into being, who and what we are, what is wrong with the world, and what is the solution, and then what happens to us when we die. And she's put, everyone has a worldview whether or not we spent time thinking about it. And that's very true. I mean, going back to the whole thing about race, um, the way I think about racism and dealing with the problem of racism is, is gonna be different to how, um, you know, Tony, who is of mixed race or Chiney thinks about racism, who is from Nigeria. And you, you, you, those sort of worldviews do pepper what is going on? And if you have the worldview that actually, or the belief that actually telling lies is a good thing. Or is okay. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's like, actually I think one of the hardest things to do is to actually be totally honest and, and not just to like me to you, but actually me to me. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? To be brutally honest with myself over, I don't know, even simple things like anxiety or my mental health or how much rest I'm taking or [00:51:00] all that sort of stuff. Do you know what I mean? It's like you can deceive yourself quite easily, I think, but actually being truthful with yourself. Yeah. That's quite, that's quite a tricky thing Phil: well say. I think you're absolutely right. And it's interesting 'cause we were both at the same church this morning with this brilliant lady Chiney talking about, uh, talking about race and racism and how you can have a lie that becomes so pervasive in a society. Mm-hmm. That everybody believes the lie to be self-evidently true. I'm almost echoing Martin Luther King there. Maybe we'll get onto it in a minute, but the idea that, um, white people are superior to black people was a truth. That was so pervasive that I think people grew up just assuming it, it was the case and that allowed people to, uh, justify slavery. It allowed people to justify all manner of horrific racisms. Racisms. I dunno if that's a prol, but you know what I mean? Yeah. And then you, you can't think pe people, brave people reflected on this. This isn't true. This isn't true. This isn't God's plan for [00:52:00] human beings. This isn't, um, right. This isn't fair. This isn't just, um, and so you have to sometimes challenge, um, shall we say, a, a cultural lie, maybe. Yeah. And you and I have grown up in the last 40, 50 years in a culture, and I'm pretty sure there are various things that we have grown up assuming to be true, that we might not be even reflecting on. Mm-hmm. But they're deep down in, in sin us. And I guess one of the things about, uh, which I've enjoyed a lot about being a Christian is, is the emphasis on truth. And I know the church is responsible for all sorts of terrible things. Um, the institution of the church, whatever kind of church you're talking about, whether it's, you know, Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, whether it's a non-denominational, you know, all sorts of terrible things. But the Bible keeps coming back to the truth. The truth setting you free, it keeps coming back to, um, it talks about the devil being the, the father of lies and deception. Yeah. Yeah. And you're thinking, yeah, actually, [00:53:00] um, reflecting on who you are and what you think and what you believe is, is, could, is, is a journey. And you can find out a lot of it, in my opinion, by going to, going to a good church, thinking about it, reading the Bible, talking to God about it and going, for example, I mean, slavery's an interesting one, isn't it? 'cause the Bible was used to justify slavery. Um, wrongly in, in my opinion. Yeah. Um, I'm not quite sure where my sentence is going here, but it just reminds me, Martin Luther King saying, we believe these truths to be self-evident. Self evident. Yep. And to me, one of them is. All people were made in the image of God. Yeah. And we're all created equal Full stop. Yeah. Matt: Full stop. There's nothing else to put after that is there? No. No. Phil: But, but if you live in a culture that, uh, and I don't know who, where you are watching this, if you live in a culture that doesn't accept that, you might have to reflect on that a little bit and go, hang on a minute. Why have I been taught that there is a hierarchy? Yeah. Um, and I, I probably, as a British, white British man born in 1970, [00:54:00] grew up thinking there is a hierarchy. And they're going back to the media. I think one of the things Chiney said this morning was, I forget the actual numbers, but if you watch British media, the portrayal of young black men is almost always in the role of some sort of criminal or perpetrator. Whether that's in fictional TV films, whether that's in, you know, just from the media generally. And you go, aha, I've gotta be aware of this. 'cause this is gonna infiltrate my view of young black men as, as an example. Matt: No, no, it's a good example. And I think the statistic was like over 80 odd percent. It was crazy. Yeah. The crazy number, and I've had this, and you would've had it with your daughter too. I've had this conversation with my daughter, you know, on social media tv, she'll see over 3000 images a day of what beauty is defined by culture, right? Yeah. And so that, that, that's pervasive, that sinks in. And actually, no, I think the role of a father here comes along and goes, nah, hang on a minute. We need to, we need to bring a little bit of truth in [00:55:00] here. Uh, let's look at what the Bible says. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And, and let's, let's understand this. Now we are created, uh, in the image of God. Yep. Just full, full stop right there. Phil: We come back to that again. We are all created in the image of God, full stop. We are all, you know, God looks on the inside. We're beautiful people. Uh, God loves us. And, and I guess this is the fundamental to me, and I know we, we, we believe more or less the same thing. We might have disagreements about the greatest football team, the right chocolate bar, the best crisps, but to quote my old friend, Dave, there's only four things you need to know. One is God loves you. Number two is you've sin. Number three, Jesus died for you. And number four, you need to decide what you're gonna do with that information. Everything else is, is important perhaps, but those are the four fundamentals of the Christian faith. Matt: Exactly. Exactly. And like Sharon said, that is objective truth, right there. It's it's true whether or not you believe it. Uh, or whether you believe it or not, doesn't change the fact it's truth. It's either right or it's wrong. Yeah, Jesus either did come or he didn't. He either died for your sins or he didn't. [00:56:00] What you believe about that has no bearing on whether that event actually happened or not. Uh, and so yes. Now here we go. So, uh, in closing, uh, I just wanted to just close the Skips conversation. Uh, Bruce has put here in the comments and I, Bruce, please come back next time Phil is hosting because this is just awesome. Uh, I believe that Phil did steal the whole bag. Uh, so here we go, I believe, right? So we're talking about subjective truth here, Phil. I just wanna point that out. Uh, I believe that Phil did steal the whole bag, but shared them with his friends to win them over. One of them let the cat out the bag and mum had to deal with the fallout. Phil: Well, um, my brother is two and a half years older than me. So he can, if this happened in 1978, I was probably seven and he's nine and a half or something like that. So I'm gonna say that he's probably [00:57:00] claiming that his version of the truth is more accurate. Because, because he was older, I couldn't comment. But I will take this opportunity on Crowd Church and say, Bruce, if I stole those crisps, I apologize. And, and, and get over it. It's gonna be a proper apology. 'cause I'm not now gonna go. But these are all the things you did wrong. Okay. Which is, so I'm not gonna say that Matt: we're gonna avoid the KP discos. Phil: I could, I could, I could give you a big long list. Um, which is why, which is why, you know, going back to Sharon's talk, what I liked about it so much was talking about talking about forgiveness. And you go, yeah, okay. You know, it is, it is obviously only crisps, but you know, if your family are struggling to not get on, somebody has to. Apologize. Yeah. And somebody has to apologize. And, and you know, we were talking about this in South Africa after apartheid, they had to have the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Mm-hmm. And here in Liverpool, [00:58:00] we had to do, I think it was truth and justice Video: about Phil: Hillsborough. So great, great injustices. I know they're not the same, but you know, it's, the principle here is that, and in your family, wherever you are, wherever you're watching, there will be, um, stresses. There will be, uh, you, you might be harboring some sort of anger or bitterness or judgment against somebody. Um, and the solution to that, and this is a great biblical principle, is, um, you might have to be quite blunt about it. You might have to be, you know, get to the truth about it. But you need to, somebody needs to forgive somebody. Um, yeah. Certainly God, in my experience and my understanding of the Bible is in the business of families and friends and relationships working successfully, working well, he doesn't want us to live in antagonism with one another, whether that's in our family or whether it's between countries, and one way of doing that is to speak truth, but with love or speak love, but with truth and a very big dollar of forgiveness. I know, I know. I know. I needed forgiving. I wasn't the worst [00:59:00] person in the world and I'm still not, but I still know that I need forgiveness for the sins that I commit and the good things that I don't do as well. Matt: You and me both. Oh man. Well, the good news is, uh, Phil, um, Bruce has written in the comments, I forgive you after all these years. Yes. So maybe we can let this so tr I like that though. Truth and reconciliation and, um, yeah, Sadaf put here. Bruce wouldn't lie. I dunno if Sadaf knows Bruce, but she's convinced him. Oh no. Yeah, Phil: she does. She, when he, I think she lives in Liverpool. Sadaf. Matt: That's right. Phil: And yeah. And, but they know each other from when they lived in Pakistan. Matt: No way. Phil: Yeah. Isn't that weird? Yeah. So my brother lived in Pakistan. I think Sadaf might have been one of his pupils. Um, oh. Yeah. Yeah. Weird, isn't it? Matt: Wow. There you Phil: go. Matt: Small world. Small world. Well, Phil, even life, Phil: he, he would, he, he's pretty honest. My brother generally, possibly too brutally honest, but he's learned to temperate with love. Matt: Apparently he did teach that [01:00:00] up. I'm learning something new right now. Yeah. There's a whole new level of truth, which was uh, which is coming up. Yeah. Phil, thank you so much for being with us. Brilliant us. But, uh, it's been great. We are gonna end the live stream here. If you do wanna get in touch with us here at Crowd Church, you can reach us at www dot Crowd Church and uh, we will get a hold of you. You can write in the comments, uh, either on Facebook or YouTube, which I know people have been doing. Uh, if you go to the website, there's a WhatsApp number which you can reach out to us on if you've got any Prayer requests, all those kind of things. We would love to hear from you next week. Uh, we at what's happening next week in the comments. Thanks Matt. It's like my pa now, Matt Crew. Uh, next week we are asking the question, what does the Bible say about women? Oh yes, we are getting into that whole topic. Hannah Sloan is gonna be doing the talk for that. So, uh, that is gonna be a great, great conversation. Uh, so do come and check that out. Uh, in the [01:01:00] meantime, what we're gonna do is we're gonna play one more worship song now, which you can join in with at the end of that song. The live stream will end automatically. Thank you so much for being with us. Uh, it's been great. I've really enjoyed this conversation, Phil. Always enjoy my conversations with you both. Yeah. They're all good fun. So from myself and from Phil, have a great week. Bye for now. Phil: Bye everybody.