16: Learning to be Content

I was raised with this culture of um falling out with people and and I didn't I didn't receive it myself um but she yeah she was so difficult and she fell out with me many times she'd go down the road um she she would put a coat on and unpack a case and say I'm leaving I'm gonna put a header in a gas oven and all these things yeah so I you know when I became a Christian I had to deal with some of that stuff you know um which was hard so I'd say that's probably the biggest challenge I've faced uh rejection from someone that loves you welcome to what's the story my name is Matt Edmondson and this is a podcast full of stories about faith and courage from everyday people and today I am chatting with John Sloane about his Christian Journey challenges that he's faced in life and some of the lessons that he's learned along the way but before we get into it uh John one of the things I I like to do is give a shout out to past episodes and I thought two episodes pretty apt for today given uh the nature of what we're gonna talk about in episode number five of what's the story you should check that out trusting God through the seasons of life that's actually with James Sloan who is Johnson so if you want the the inside track and what it's like to have John as a dad check that episode out and then episode number six uh serving and following god with Nick Harding who like John was also a doctor so their experiences as dogs are quite interesting you can find these and their entire Archive of episodes and live streams on our website for free at www.crowd.church and we'll ask you there make sure to sign up to the newsletter and each week we will email you all the links and notes from the conversations they go direct to your inbox automatically totally for free so make sure you sign up for that and this episode is brought to you by crowd online Church John you know as well as I do right that not everybody wants to go to church and not everybody can get into a church building and this is where online Church works really really well it is a safe space to explore the Christian faith and the thing that I love about crowd is that you get to join in and shape the conversation they don't just talk at you so if you've never been to church before or if you're looking for a new church check out crowdchurch the website is www.crowd.church or you can email me directly at Matt crowd.church with any questions that you have there you go yes now let's give a quick shout out to New Hope uh the website is new hope.co.uk this is the charity that John and Mara his beautiful wife started in 1999 that functions in the DRC the Democratic Republic of Congo and Uganda running medical clinics and extending the gospel of Christ where over 300 000 adults and children have been been treated with medicines and presented with the gospel over 50 000 responding and a number of new churches being planted which is awesome yes it is now John was born and raised in Liverpool he trained in surgery and emergency medicine working for the amazing NHS for 38 years as an a e consultant and if you're outside of the uh UK a e is basically the ER to translate for our American cousins uh and John retired about five years ago I know he doesn't look uh that old too retired as he no he is married to Myra who is also a doctor keeping the doctor in the family James has married a Doctor John your daughter is married a doctor you've got three grown-up children and nine grandchildren and if that's not enough you also sort of co-lead Frontline rural which is a church plant uh from Frontline Church here in uh Liverpool while it's in the world which is the other side of order from Liverpool so John it's great to have you here I've been looking forward to this conversation man thanks for joining me oh it's great to be be here that's awesome it's awesome so what is this crazy link your family seems to have with medicine okay so my eldest son is a doctor he's a microbiologist uh Becky our middle one married a doctor and then James married a doctor so we've got all these doctors in the family um that's just how it turned out yeah it's funny isn't it how that um how it has turned out it's just and you're married to a doctor you're a doctor yourself uh so yeah it's um it's just funny how it's I have it so I didn't to be fair John it wasn't until I read the Bible that I started to put all those pieces together well hang on a minute there's more to this story so um so you were born in Liverpool let's go back you were born and raised in Liverpool uh before going to med school what was that like so I was born in Walton before Walton was posh um and I lived was it you that made it Posh maybe and they've dropped the Reynolds Park and we used to go sledging there and it was so really nice place to grow up actually yeah um but when I was about 10 I suppose I learned to smoke and my mum almost 10. yeah mom always had cigarettes in the house so I used to go outside the wall uh of our house and smoke uh so that was one of my Recollections of growing up in Liverpool wow wow at 10 years old smoking at 10 I remember when I was growing up I grew up in the sort of 70s and 80s and I remember quite a lot of kids would smoke then as well because it was like the cool thing to do um and I for some reason I never I never took to it my mum smoked but I never sort of really got behind that whole idea and partly because I'd cough up whenever I'd get around it so what why was it just something you guys did when you were 10 years old or was it was it more to do it I guess it was I mean I'm talking about the 60s and I guess it was probably one of those things you know that you did um yeah I loved it and I smoked until I was telling I was a Christian actually yeah wow so so you're growing up smoking away uh James Dean style I think that probably not helped everybody with that poster um so you sort of you grow up in in Liverpool you but you head off to as we we alluded to in the intro you head off to medical school right um but are you a Christian at this point did you grow up in a Christian family or was there something that happened later on in life no my my parents were nominal Catholics um I remember one of them really clearly we we had a had a debt I think uh I was about yeah it was about eight or nine um and I said to her mum you know should we pray about this and she said no no prayer doesn't work and and at that point I realized their faith was just false yeah um and that had a profoundly negative effect on on me for years to come you know I just thought faith is nonsense yeah that's really interesting but your parents went to mass right so yeah so they were quite religious they were quite religious yes for sure very dedicated to that but they just their faith just wasn't there then no no sure sure so religious without any real Faith yeah you're right wow wow so but you remember this happening when you were seven that you suggested well let's pray about this debt yeah seven or eight I can't remember when but I remember the I can remember the day actually that it happened yeah wow wow it's funny how things like that sort of stick out in your mind isn't it where you where you you remember these these sort of these chance conversations as a kid so did that have a big impact on you then because your parents Faith wasn't authentic right I I think for years after that I just thought this was nonsense this Faith um that that event turned me against God for many years hmm so what happened then how did you how did you if that was for many years then then what happened over those many years to sort of Turn You Back okay so when I was probably 14 I decided to ask God and a missing Mass was a mortal sin so I stayed in bed and pulled the covers up over my head and I got to noon um and I was still alive it's nonsense this is nonsense yeah but we went to University and Mara and I went to the same University which is a miracle actually because there were four thousand applications for not here medical school with any 48 places and we both got away so did you know Maya before you went to University yes yes we'd known each other free probably a couple of years actually okay but then we met these Christians and they were so Troublesome and they say come and do this Bible study Mara was going why are you doing that John and I I said well as part of being you know in a university you've got to be educated and what have you um so we did this Bible study for three weeks and at the end of the three weeks we both were commenced this was right you know lived for us died for us um Myra was committed I was um not quite as committed really um I wanted my lifestyle such as it was uh so for a year or so I was totally unhappy because my life had been wrapped by this silly decision to follow Jesus Christ when Mara was quite committed um yeah so from 73 74 uh yeah my life was awful I almost left Medical School actually I was so unhappy wow that's really interesting you were you you'd made a decision that this whole Jesus thing was real both you and Myra what made it at the same time yeah same day October the 23rd 1973. that was that okay okay October 23rd 1973. uh and so you you make this decision um and then your life seems to get worse uh and you become unhappy following your decision yeah to follow Christ and have I understood that right that is that because of your desire to maintain a previous lifestyle are you trying to were you trying to say one thing and live another way what was causing that totally totally you you've summarized it totally so I was smoking I didn't want to live a holy lifestyle um I believe this stuff but I didn't want to live it and I went on for oh into 1975 I think and then David Watson was doing a mission in the University um and I remember standing at the back smoking a cigarette listening to him I I was right by the door at the very back and suddenly I realized in an instant this Jesus is amazing and I I Stumble forward and David Watson I don't you him or no of him um he was a an amazing church phone and vicar who had been touched by John Wimber I think and the Holy Spirit um but I stumbled forward and he prayed for me uh and my life turned around at that moment so I I went back to that to my hall of residence and I prayed in tongues that night and I'd never done that nobody'd ever told me what it was like um but yeah so you go to this meeting and so what was it about this meeting then that caused caused your life to change in an instant because I mean if you're living for almost two years this sort of um the the life uh the the thing the analogy this brings to my mind on I don't know if you ever saw the movie The Karate Kid where Mr Miyagi says you know if you walk left side road safe walk right side the road safe walk in the middle squish just like grape I always remember this sort of scene in my head and it sounds like you were trying to you weren't living either fully for God or just not bothering at all you're trying to walk in the middle between these sort of two tensions and it was all going a bit wrong so what happened then at that meeting what was it that caused life to change in an instant I don't know even to this day I don't know I mean I was 21 I'm now 67. I have no idea but something from the Holy Spirit touched my my heart um and I would say my life repeated on that moment actually yeah that's really interesting so was Myra at this meeting I can't remember actually she might have been can't remember okay but for you it was pretty radical um absolutely what I mean you you sense obviously God you've had this encounter uh as we'd like to say in church you had the encounter with a you know an encounter with the holy spirit so you go back to your room you start praying in tongues for those that don't know what that means um or maybe have some misconception of what that means just explain what happened there or speak in tongues yeah yeah yeah so I went back to my room I think that night actually and I knew there was something filling my heart so I closed my curtains and locked the door because I was so embarrassed you know I cut my knees and I just started speaking this language that I'd never spoken before yeah um it was weird and every night I did the same so I'd start off reading a psalm and then it's like an airplane taking off and I'd read the psalm then I'd take off and then I'd speak in tongues and I pray for maybe half an hour like that and no one had ever shown me or taught me uh was weird yeah it feels great though isn't it you sort of um you sort of had this Dynamic encounter so from that point on uh from that point uh listening to David you go back to your room you have this encounter with the Holy Spirit did you the following day then had you made a decision like Mr Miyagi says to walk the left side of the road or the right side of the road totally so my friend said to me what's happened to you you've stopped grumbling you've stopped being a miserable so-and-so the people around me notice big time um yeah my life was changed uh and what about the smoking oh I didn't smoke for five days and I didn't even notice um amazing yeah yeah I noticed at five days and then thought why don't you do that yeah that's funny that's funny so um it it's great isn't it when you you sort of um you hear stories like this people they become a Christian they have actually quite a some people have quite a strong encounter with God some people that like I it was just a decision which I mean and the encounters with God came much later down the line um but for some people they have these quite radical Encounters of their their sort of conversion if you like when they they become Christ followers and people get instantly set free from things like a good friend of mine he used to be um it was quite addicted to drugs and he never had drugs since do I mean it sort of gets their freedom and so it's funny how you you sort of instantly stop smoking and you don't even realize you've stopped smoking and people stop swearing don't they and they don't even realize they've done that and it's it's just really interesting listening to all those kind of stories so how did Myra take the news well she'd been quite committed actually over these these months um so she was delighted that eventually this um this man this map was also going to be a lover of Jesus um yeah so yeah she was delighted oh fantastic that's fantastic so when did you guys get married okay so that was 70 we went to 73. I really could commit myself to Christ in 75 and we got married in September 76. okay so it's quite quickly after that yeah we were still medical students with 30 medical students yeah fantastic so how many years have you been married now I can't do the math between now symbols that's almost 40 years isn't it you're coming up for yeah 46 I think to be oh yeah almost 50 years well maybe you've got something to do in 2026 haven't you arranged some kind of big uh big deal for that you're right you're right yeah think about that so what led you then to becoming an a e consultant how what was that sort of uh Journey like yeah so back back in the day a e was um not what it is now so I was a surgeon I trained as a surgeon I was uh I did my surgical exam in oh to now 1990 1985 and for about two months I was the youngest surgeon in the country um yeah um so I was a surgeon at 27 I think which you just can't do it before that you know yeah things you have to do um and a e was like the you know The Cutting Edge of surgery you even people would come in and you'd you'd have to do chest surgery brain surgery you have to do everything um by and bye it's turned into a service where you just admit people so it's changed massively in the last 30 40 years but in those days I just loved doing with the stuff I was doing and doing brain surgery wow and I was a hand surgeon yeah full-time actually for about three four years and I love that um I probably should have gone into that full time I think but medicine's changed and they they go yeah yeah that's fascinating and who's I just out of curiosity who's playing the piano in the background that is John Farrington uh John Farrington is John Franklin yeah yeah we can uh it's just interesting that you talk about becoming a Christian and he starts playing the piano almost like you're on stage you know like like the ministers playing in the big one um but no that's cool so you um so you you spent all these years working in hospital but in the late 90s 1999 you set up New Hope Charity what was the Catalyst on that well you know that's the story We Were we were in France in 1995 and a profit test we have some friends in France in neem even now we on the phone two days ago to them so a prophetess um sent to us God he wants to give you Esperance A New Hope and it was it we were going through a difficult time um but the nouvelle Esperance the new hope we we kept with us and then we were forming yeah a new Fellowship I can't remember exactly what it was but we had a dozen people and we said about two years later um and we said what will we call our our new Fellowship it turned into a church plant actually um and people said uh we should call it New Hope and we thought wow that's one she said yeah two three years before and nuclear response um so we called our Charity New Hope and it became a church plant um and here we are all these years later um it's our charity that we've run since that time so how did you how did you go from being a church plan to be in a medical center in the DRC because that's not a usual no no a usual progression is it really okay so so 1991 go back a long way I was in the Town Hall in Leeds and um God said to me I I feel really it's one of those things where you really feel sure that God's speaking to you and God said to me um you're going to work in french-breaking Africa so I mean we've always loved French you the language we've always loved France the country um but we couldn't do anything about it because you know I was working full-time we had small children yeah um anyway 1990 seven before New Hope we began to work in Guyana in South America um next door to Venezuela and we were just like like novices doing doing medical stuff um we went there probably seven or eight times to be honest and then we started working in the Philippines in 2001 after 9 11. um and we really cut our teeth there and we realized that in Guyana we hadn't left any Heritage but in the Philippines we wanted to raise up workers which we did um the Philippines now is independent all those years later 20 years later and they run their own clinics then we started working in Uganda in 2000 and three I think um and we trained a surgeon who used his private practice money to run the ministry and that's still going now but uh and then God led us into Congo and all those years later French big Africa came into place so the only place we work now is Congo um yeah that's it's been a long long journey long story but yeah that's fantastic so you've got these so here you it's interesting isn't it that you're you you trained as both you and Mario trained as Doctors Medical uh medical school and throughout your journey what I find fascinating is that training which you had then was not made redundant you did the church plan the Church Fellowship but you're also doing all the medical stuff around the world and sort of using the medicine as you like as a as a sort of a way into different nations and to reach different people was that always the intention or was that something that sort of came I don't know a bit later down the line when you thought it through a bit more hard to say really Matt I don't know um it just seemed to be a natural progression for us you know these things these things just happened uh yeah so yeah I can't say really it's interesting isn't it and one of the things that um you know you see it a lot in church don't you you are people that are given gifts they've got talents that um they have that they use nine to five Monday through Friday and it's almost like they they can't take that into church and use that to help Church in the kingdom of God whereas um what you did was you took those gifts and you use those to build Church in the kingdom of God does that make sense yeah well that's how it felt totally in fact we were we were who we were um and it was a holistic thing and it was just natural for us to do what we were you know yeah give me the the opportunity to do yeah no it's brilliant it's brilliant use use the talents and the gifts you have to build the kingdom of God uh step number one right look it's a beautiful thing so and I mean that's that's a heck of a journey right and I'm sure there's lots of stories and miracles along the way because you know knowing you John there's got to be so what are some of the key challenges that you guys have faced on that journey is maybe a good question to ask yeah so I think I I guess the smaller challenge was some questions that uh that were difficult along the way no I don't believe it's true difficult Christians where where are they I don't believe it so but that was a minor thing I think that's I think the biggest challenge in my life has been I hate to say it but my mum my mum was she's now passed on she would be probably 100 if she was alive now but um she was a very difficult lady and she fell out with everybody that she met our neighbors um everybody everybody the family she fell out with um so I was I was raised with this culture of she yeah she was so difficult and she fell out with me many times she'd go these things yeah she told you that right yeah she said that to me when you're a kid she's yeah yeah yeah so I you know when I became a Christian I had to deal with some of that stuff you know um so I'd say that's probably the biggest challenge I've faced uh rejection from someone that loves you I think I'm fine now but um yeah that that's been my biggest challenge in life I would think so what was that like I mean it it was your mum serious about this or was it a form of coercion and control what was the latter for sure I mean look at the time I felt she was serious about it but it in retrospect she was just manipulating me ration my dad my sister yeah so quite quite a bad person in many ways and I don't you know don't say that lightly against someone but uh she did harm me a lot I think to be honest that's that's incredible isn't it and so you you have these guys and to be honest with you John there aren't that many stories of people having scars from their mum there's plenty of people having scars from their dads yeah um but not so much their mum so what was their relationship with your dad like my relationship with my dad was amazing he was sweet he was lovely uh Mara only knew him for he died when I was 21 some are renewing for three years and he was just as sweet as bam you can imagine he was like James right okay so a lot like Jessica that's interesting so so how did he cope with your mum or did you never really get to the bottom of it because he passed away when you were quite young yeah I was probably too young to really know I think he he was very tolerant all right I don't know I don't know how he coped and it might have been part of his early demise to be honest you know because she was really quite vicious yeah well so what sort of you say you know there's been one of your biggest challenges is learning how to to sort of be free from that I suppose so what have been some of your key learnings there yeah I think it took me probably quite a few decades to understand that that had hurt me deeply and some of my reactions to other people were due to that um so probably in my 40s I began to process it uh I never I never went to any counselor or anything like that it just just had to deal with it before the Holy Spirit I think but once I did it was so cathartic and so helpful and it helped me understand other people's problems with relatives friends whatever um so I think I'm I'm the better for it you know having been through that experience yeah no doubt it's really interesting isn't it you you sort of you go through this it's interesting you're talking about canceling I was talking to my mum the other day uh and um a family member I recommended goes to a see a counselor there's some issues going on I'm like I really think you should probably go see a castle like it's no big deal now right just go to betterhelp.com and just look for a counselor right now and yeah there's no there's no Stigma attached with I don't think these days but my mum said you know when she was growing up um and when she was you know in the 60s and 70s no one told you to go to a counselor you just you just dealt with it and so um it just it in fact she the whole counseling thing seems a little bit alien to her she wouldn't be able to sort of recommend it so when you were when you were dealing with this in your 40s um and the Holy Spirit was highlighting some things what I I guess if you're going to summarize it was it a case of the Holy Spirit highlighted different behaviors there was uh repentance and asking for forgiveness on your part helped to change or or was there more to it than that no there wasn't more to it no I think the Holy Spirit helped me to see that um I needed to just be neutral in my heart and um just let this go so no it wasn't that complex it was a big thing in my life for sure yeah because I did feel very for a long time I I was wondering why I was so out there what would you say um for a long time I wondered why I reacted to people the way I did and then one day it dawned on me this is because your mum went down the road with a suitcase with a coat on ten times with me following her crying when I was seven or eight and I realized the insecurity was deeply you know in my heart and it's been probably the biggest thing in my life to be honest but once I doubt once I recognized it and dealt with it was fine so what would you say to someone uh listening John to the podcast because I I mean I I'm listening to you I have a great relationship with my mum I think she's a wonderful lady so I I can't I can empathize but like I can't I can't I can't go that's my experience because it just isn't racial um but there are people listening to the the show who will go Yes actually I this is um this is true for me in this situation that's what what advice would you give to people listening who are maybe um maybe when they're listening to you just going oh ouch something's something's quite true there yeah sure well I I can't give advice I don't think on this because I'm not talented enough to do that but all I can say is that I left it with God I left with him and the the the balloon of pain was punctured when I left it with him and I I I I I think it was dealt Within in weeks once I realized what had gone on so yeah that's all I can say let's dealt with in weeks that's really the balloon of pain was punctured I'd love that love that phrase uh love that phrase so you've obviously you've had to overcome uh stuff with your mum what are the sort of challenges have you faced or is or is that I mean you say that's the key one is there anything else that sort of Springs to mind uh I think uh the only other one I've I've experienced has been hostility from people that you work with Okay um and and really being troubled by why people would be hostile to you I mean to be fair uh I don't think I've experienced that to a great degree but that's been the only other thing without I think yeah yeah it's interesting isn't it I remember um when I first I was working for Frontline Church uh yeah as a volunteer when I left uni and I had a part-time job at the same time just to sort of pay I was lodging with Nick Harding at the time so to pay my board and lodgings um I worked in a restaurant and um and the the people that ran the restaurant some of them were like some of them I just did not get on with it all and here I am a young guy in his 20s not you know been a Christian a couple years but still a let's just say my ability to deal with people was not as refined as it is now right it was a little bit more um uh confrontational is probably a better way to put it and um I remember there was one lady in particular who we just didn't get on very well for whatever reason and there was one time I I remember like she'd she'd actually hit me in the restaurant and I remember looking at her thinking I'm gonna lose it right now do I mean I'm just and you're knowing you can feel and I was like I just remember praying Holy Spirit would you just come into this situation because I I I I knew I was about to lose it and um anyway I I said to the the lady and just walked off right I just I didn't react to this point in time and at that point as soon as I invited the Holy Spirit into it things began to change and she and I became reasonably good friends over the next sort of three or four months it was quite fascinating and she um she actually had a shop near the church that I would go sit in when I was working at the church and just go and meet that's how I met everybody in the local community was to sat in her shop just chatting away to everybody all day it was great and so it was funny how that whole situation got turned around you know that whole animosity at work got turned around for something that actually God used for his good you know yeah it's great it's great so your balloon of paint has sort of gone down I'm curious uh John that um you know you've you've done all of these things you've you've planted Church you are planting church right now um it's not the first church you've planted uh you've done all these medical centers uh all over the world you've done some amazing stuff you've got some great kids you've got some grandparents um and you know you've had to overcome some stuff so if you could go back in time and have a conversation with your smoking self uh as you're going to medical school what what would be the advice that you would give that that young lad well that goes back a long way I think I think my main message is the the well it's the title of the only book we've written as as a couple which is five layers and two fishes um so so I would say to myself just use whatever you have there are only Five Loaves and two fishes but use it for the kingdom because we've had uh that has been incredible for us we you know we've we've had hardly any resource and you know hardly any training uh I mean yeah we're doctors I'm a surgeon in the whole whole Gambit you know it's not a lot um and we've just given it to God and he's he's used us um in a way I could never have imagined so yeah that's that's my that's my life message really I think so Five Loaves two fishes take whatever you've got and give it to God yeah totally so that that boy that gave his lunch he's in every gospel he's been preacher on the world um all he did was give his lunch and I think that's and that's a good message give me lunch give your lunch give your book give your lunch to God it's probably it this is a good clarify so do you feel like that's what you've done with say your your training your medical degrees your marriage your family is that what you feel like you've done before God absolutely yeah that sounds a bit pretentious if I say yes but uh I I failed so many times to be honest but yeah that's been my spirit for sure that's been the driving force maybe it's the uh the desire the heart's desire is to is to sort of is to do that where do you think that desire I don't want to use the word came from because obviously it came from God right and that's the obvious thing but was there something that kick-started that or triggered that within you in terms of the Five Loaves and the two fishes because it's interesting when you ask this question on the what's the story podcast you know like what should what message what's a piece of advice you'd give yourself everybody's answer is different right yeah and that's the beautiful thing about the the you know the the kingdom of God isn't it we're all unique and God makes us that way and it's great and sure there are some similarities sure there are some overlaps um but this is the thing that is important to you because this has been your life experience but I'm I'm curious to know there might not be anything John but I'm curious no was there something that kick-started you down that particular route I think when I started you know when I was a young surgeon the younger surgeon in the country for three months I think um I I probably thought that I had it all to give that is the years went by I think I realized I didn't have it all to give and um and and God would do stuff I I think I think it was through a series of experiences where I felt god um say things to me I remember yeah that this this experience in Leeds Town Hall in 1991 when I was I was on the carpet the way we were in those days and God said you know I'm gonna take you to French speaking Africa and it's like um I I can't see how that's going to happen unless you do it hard and it was through experiences like that um that I realized that you know God's in control and I can trust him to do stuff without me needing to make it happen yeah yeah that's really interesting John I I'm gonna ask you the same question ask everybody on this show right uh you're at the Oscars you've won the award uh you know your lifetime achievement of or whatever reward it is you you're up on the stage you've taken a bear everyone's going yeah hey John well done it's awesome um and you get like a few minutes to thank those that have had a big impact on your life you know like family mentors authors speakers preachers whoever right pastors I'm curious to know who who is on your list of people to thank okay so I would say two people three people three people my dad was wonderful he was a wonderful guy Mara's dad wonderful I loved him too um and then the the Amy consultant I worked with when I first became a consultant he was 53 when I was 31 so the difference between us but he was a Godly Man he'd been a missionary in Nepal um he taught me to preach he taught me many things in the Christian Life um he died about three four years ago but he was probably the biggest influence on my life lovely man wow so that's so you you go to the hospital as a young trainee surgeon you're working with another surgeon and we prayed every morning together wow every morning in his office for the Department for the for the staff you know what one guy had HIV before we had a cure for HIV and we paid for him and we went to his house to pray for him and we were just it was a you know an amazing experience to be honest wow so that's life-changing and that's interesting isn't it so he was a missionary as well he went around the world doing medical missions and so on and so forth and probably that was the inspiration for me to do the same thing yeah it says what I'm thinking yeah that's almost the Catalyst right it's like in that and it's hearing his stories I would imagine that spark something inside you Robert said oh I could I could I could do this wow so how long did you work for him for oh we were together for about seven or eight years we lived about a mile apart the thing I most remember about Michael was that you could turn up to his house on a Sunday afternoon and just come in and chill out you know he he he was just a just a dad to everybody really so yeah yeah amazing experience definitely look back and and think gosh people don't get that experience very often you know I was very fortunate to meet him and work with him yeah to almost be apprenticed by him right yeah discipled I suppose is with the word we'd use in the church Apprentice sounds a bit too star warsy my Apprentice I I really was discipled so I was 31 when I moved there and I I you know I was a a dedicated believer and I was into the word but he took me to another level he showed things the Holy Spirit he taught me the gifts of the Spirit yeah it was great oh fantastic that's really fascinating isn't it and there's something quite magical I mean I don't know if you've noticed this but all three people you'd like to thank Are all uh sort of Father figures really in in a lot of ways yeah yeah and there's something quite lovely um about that and incumbent upon us I suppose as men in the church who maybe have got a few more gray hairs than we used to have uh to ice again I'm around my chin now John um but it's it's there's that sense of fathering in the church isn't there which I think is we had our Marshall on the podcast recently who was talking about you know having a heart for men and the the needs sort of encourage men and there's something about the older generation encouraging the general the generation that's coming up is in there and taking that responsibility very seriously that's what happened in that hospital you know for you with third with Michael how do you have you reciprocated that I think is probably a great question to ask or have you reciprocated that I know you have reciprocated that you know it's a leading question um so what what sort of things do you do deliberately that you've learned that the sort of uh facilitate that yeah yeah okay so last weekend we were in Poland and we went to stay with our friends that used to live with us two years uh three four years ago so they stayed in our house with their little girl and now we they invited us to do a a conference with um Jack uh Jack Mauna um on missional communities so um that was a wonderful experience because um I think we have that relationship with them so they I I call them the watches because I can't pronounce I mean the watches are probably in their mid-30s but uh I think I have that sort of relationship with him and and and which is a joy really because you if you can't pass on something you've learned then um it's a sadness isn't it you know you need to be able to pass on through your things that matter to other people yeah yeah you do and it's interesting I mean you may I mean we heard John Farrington playing the piano in the background but you have the John and Anna Grace and staying at your house with uh with Eden as well and that is another form of it isn't it it's actually let's do family together and I know you guys are sort of working uh establishing Frontline world if you are in the world looking for a church check out Frontline World um and but it's that it's not an operating room but it's your home uh and you're you're you're you're sort of doing the same thing there right yeah yeah totally totally so uh we have a really good relationship with John and Anna Grace AG as she's known uh Anna Eden um Eden comes down the stairs every morning gives me cuddle um they're like family with us and family family really matters I think um I think it's so powerful um yeah so the thing that we learned from Michael so we probably are duplicating in their life too and and the Watchers yeah it's really interesting isn't it and I think some of these things you do without realizing you're doing them it's only when you sort of piece it all together oh yeah it came at that point let's see what you're doing there good see what you're doing there ah brilliant absolutely brilliant John listen uh thank you for joining us on uh what's the story it's been great having having this conversation I always I always love our chats um if people want to reach out to you if people want to connect with you what's the best way to do that I think just email me doc John slow you can see the uh the spelling there Dr John Sloan gmail.com fantastic so yeah if you've got any questions for John and do email them and reach out to him I'm sure he'd love to uh love to answer them uh what we've not touched on yet and maybe we'll talk it to con touch on this uh in maybe one of the live streams John is is that um uh John and Mara's top tips for parenting uh and also John and Mara's top tips for grandparenting uh which is uh which is going to be really interesting uh John thank you so much for joining us uh mate it's been an absolute blast and I'm super grateful for you man and just love hearing the stories and all the work that you do and you can see the Legacy that is passed into James at the imagine if and all that sort of stuff so uh thank you so much for being with us man you're a legend I see you been nice to be with you see you bye-bye that's been great so there you have it what a fantastic conversation with John thank you John again for joining me today remember to check out crowdonline church at www.crowd.church even if you might not see see the point of church crowd is a digital Church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps us live a more meaningful life we are a community a a place where you can contribute and grow and you are welcome at crowd church and it also goes to say you are welcome out Frontline World be sure to subscribe to what's the story wherever you get your podcast from because we have some great stories lined up and we don't want you to miss any of them and in case no one has told you yet today you are awesome yes you are it's just a burden you have to bear John has to Bear it I have to bear it we are fearfully and wonderfully made we are God's poetry it's just it's great we are his workmanship now what's the story is produced by crowd online church you can find our entire Archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app the team that makes this show possible is set off Bane on George McQuaid Josh catchpole Estella Robin and Tim Johnson theme son was written by Josh Edmondson and if you would like to read the transcript or show notes head over to the website www.crowd.church where you can also sign up for our Weekly Newsletter and get all of this good stuff direct your inbox totally for free that's it from me that's it from John thank you so much for joining us have a fantastic week I will see you next time bye for now