What Does The Bible Say About Marriage and Relationships?

well good afternoon and welcome to well good afternoon good evening and welcome to crowd church my name is matt edmondson and beside me is the amazingly talented and uh incredibly beautiful lady who is a what's that saying your hoodie anna strong girls girls club they are a member of the strong girls club uh anna how are you doing i'm good i mean how can i not be good after that [Laughter] it's all true it's all true i tell you it's all true welcome to crowds great to see you for those that uh have never been to crowd before let me just give you a very warm welcome we are an online church uh that is just here to explore life faith meaning talk about the christian faith we talk a lot about jesus uh and and who he is and what he does and all those kind of good things so wherever you are on your christian journey whether you know you're very new and this is your first time to any kind of church service or whether like me you've been around a while it's great to see you it's great that you're here so a big warm welcome to you absolutely so anna how was your weekend by the way it's been good i've been away actually i've had a mum's weekend off well 24 hours like yeah let's get our terminology right behind so yeah it was very restful oh wow so you've got a super husband yeah yeah occasionally get away and uh get a mum's only session so that was good yeah it was lovely nice how's yours been yeah good good i i spent yesterday messing around in the doing a bit of woodwork uh which is just fantastic because it's not digital uh and then today we were at church this morning and liverpool went to the that was leading the church service which was great we had a great time uh and uh if you are in liverpool by the way and you would like to come and watch and do in person church uh then do come join us uh at our service site in wavertree great to see you um we had a great time this morning with beth and chris kent greg chris has been on the live stream before uh talking this morning about the holy spirit so that was phenomenal uh which was yeah great to be a part of then this afternoon watched hamilton win the grand prix uh and heard the news and in fact matt crew has put it in the comments here that we need to pray for our league and a solstice and for those of you who don't know who ollie is he is or was the manager of manchester united football club uh and um yeah let's just say he no longer is so uh yes good to see you uh is it not a bit of a like bad thing to like pray for man united when you live in liverpool i don't know is that not a bit controversial well can i be honest can i be honest and i appreciate this as a church and not a football uh conversation uh i was hoping that ollie would stay because i am a big liverpool fan and so i was a bit disappointed he got sacked because from my point of view he was good for manchester united uh dan good evening great to see you sharon's here matt crew is here uh even your good self has written in the comments hi peeps uh miss anna there well done so great to see you now do you want to explain the phone number uh below can you point to it in fact let's do that i can it's oh here yeah it's harder this week i don't know why i didn't worry there's a phone number here which you can contact us on and yeah just you can message while we're live now or you can contact us through the weeks with any prayer requests or just anything you want to talk to us about at all we're always is open aren't we yeah apparently so yeah yeah no it's totally true you can get hold of us by that whatsapp number uh and the reason uh why i say to anna can you point to it is whoever's hosting we always try and get each other to point to the number because in the screens it's backwards and so you it throws your sense of direction off completely so uh that's why we just a bit of an injoke anyway that's a what's up also just like to point out matt doesn't have a problem and all the other presenters be so he has a special network that isn't backed front but normal comp just like mine don't do that anyone thinks mata is better at this than us he's actually not yeah matt's got a little bit more technology in the cave that's uh that's what matt did he uh he he saw this problem happening on a regular basis and thought oh i'll just flip everything around and then i'm okay so i can do that without any problems so yes you can also see there the web address so you can uh view all the information all past talks everything like that is online and you can catch up on there so anna what have we got coming up this week let's tell the good folks what is happening yes so today we've got uh wonderful john harding pastor john speaking to us all about marriage and relationships so that should be really cool and then we've got some worship coming up from anna grace farrington and then we'll be going to conversation street and having a bit of a chat about the subject afterwards so lots to look forward to in this session absolutely so if you do have any questions thoughts comments and all that sort of good stuff as we're going through do write them in the comments either on facebook or youtube wherever you watch them from or via whatsapp you can reach us through those if you don't want them to appear in the comments you can put your questions to us and we will endeavor to try and answer as many as we can in conversation street and as you said anna this one is about marriage and relationships uh so john is going to get into this whole thing we are or have been doing a series called what does the bible say about and this whole series is um what does sorry my phone's just gone off uh that's very poor very poor from my very unprofessional uh what does the bible say about so this series just looks at a whole bunch of questions but we've looked at what does the bible say about science what does the bible say about sleep what does bible say about anxiety is proven to be a popular one and this week as we've said is what does the bible say about marriage and relationships so without further ado here is john harding talking about this very topic what does the bible say about marriage and relationships it's a big question isn't it this is the question that i've been asked to share some thoughts on today with all of you lovely folks connecting into crowd church and obviously this is just such a massive massive topic and relationships are so complex and unique so we couldn't possibly cover every variation and situation in this talk so for example if i say today that i believe that the bible teaches at marriage is for life i'm not going to be able to cover all of the different situations in circumstances where i believe a marriage might need to end for example if a person is at risk of harm and that's why i think it's so important to get connected into a small group of christians who you can talk to and process stuff with and hear god speaking to you through that wisdom of the group so i am pretty sure that if you contact us at crowd church we can help you with that we'd love to connect you into that sort of group for further discussion and unpacking so god's plan for marriage and relationships it's a massive topic i can only cover one or two ideas today it's a nuanced complex varied thing i can only talk generally today i can't cover every scenario but also this topic of relationships it is hugely emotive it's an emotional topic you may have experienced all sorts of pain and brokenness through you might have a strong reaction when i say something like before when i say the bible teaches marriages for life you might think well my marriage ended i i worked really hard at it and still ended up in divorce that might be your truth your reaction so right at the start of this talk today on relationships i want to stress one truth one idea above all and it is this god loves you he loves you he sees you god knows you he knows all of what you've been through and he loves you he loves you with all of his love all of the time and he wants to invite you into a deeper relationship with himself he wants to take you on a journey of healing and forgiveness so that as you move forward in life following him your relationships can be transformed so we're not here at crowd church to judge anyone but we do want to call everyone into a more fulfilled way of living the pattern for living that we see in the bible what are some of the biblical principles for and my first point i want to share with you is this relationship is part of who god is the god of the bible is the god of relationship with relationships with his idea as christians we believe in this divine mystery too big to get our heads around that that god is one but that this one god exists in three part relationship father son spirit all in loving unending union father son spirit loving one another serving one another perfect equality perfect unity god exists in relationship and that's really important because i don't think we can ever really understand the bible unless we read it in that way to see first and foremost number one who god is and what god is like and then secondly how we as humans are invited to share in and participate in that fullness of who god is it is the simple and profound truth at the beginning of the bible genesis says god says let us make man in our image let us make humans in our image father son spirit three persons in relationship making humans to reflect this to echo this to flesh this truth out and i believe that human relationships so relationships on this horizontal level friendship family marriage in order for these relationships to flourish in order for us to flourish in them we need to firstly get this vertical relationship right get connected into relationship with god the father son and spirit get the vertical relationship piece right and the horizontal aspects of relationship our relationships with one another they will be far more fruitful and fulfilling there's so much truth and and so much wisdom so much we could learn and apply from that single idea that god exists in relationship and we are made in his image to imitate that relationship that pattern for relationship but let me give you just one little example of how that idea of who god is transforms relationship something that i believe christians have got really wrong in the past and it's it's this equality in marriage the idea of equality in marriage you see when we look at the trinity father-son spirit all three persons are totally equal because all three are 100 god fully god all three are to be worshipped and adored each person of the trinity is distinct and different from the rest and yet each person of the trinity is equal diversity and equality now how does that apply to marriage well for example when adam and eve the first created by god before there was any sin in the world any brokenness in the world it says that eve was described as adam's suitable helper that's the phrase that's used in the hebrew bible a suitable helper but when you dig a bit deeper and look at the original hebrew language the word helper has nothing to do with inferiority and superiority in fact throughout the bible the same word helper the exact same word is used of god god is our helper and god can't be inferior so then when you look at the word suitable in the original hebrew a suitable helper it means one who stands face to face who boldly looks the other in the eye eye to eye equal eve was a suitable helper for adam because she was his equal that's what made her suitable now it's only when you read about how they took the forbidden fruit it's only when sin and brokenness entered the world that's when it says inequality between men and women enter the world so i would go as far as to say that if you're a christian and you're treating a person you're in relationship with as less than you that you're somehow superior that they're somehow not equal to you especially in marriage i would say you are cooperating with the fall with the first sin you're not living in a way that god intended and quite frankly the bible calls that whenever we fall short of god's perfect standard it calls it sin so when we look at the nature of god that shapes and informs how we can be in fulfilling relationship with others that's point one god is relational and we are made in his image to be like him to live like him let me do points two and three now uh point two is marriage marriage is a lifelong union between one man and one woman and point three is singleness deep non-sexual friendships marriage and singleness points two and three now i say that together because when you look at the bible when you read the bible there are only ever two types of relationships that the bible affirms and celebrates and promotes and singleness i know that when we look at christians around the world so-called followers of jesus across the world today i know that you might get the impression that they're an angry bunch that they're against this and they're against that i am so sorry for christians that are like that but this talk is not about the sorts of relationships the bible is against god is not against you i'm simply wanting to outline the sorts of relationships that are celebrated in the bible and the bible only consistently celebrates marriage so um point number two how does the bible describe the relationship between husband and wife well throughout the bible there's this consistent description of marriage that is used first of all in genesis 2 verse 24 to describe the archetypal i i suppose the prototype model of relationship marriage of adam and eve and then it is used throughout the bible and later by jesus himself to define marriage if you've ever been to a wedding you'll have probably heard these words this is what it says of marriage it says for this reason a man will leave his father and mother cleave to his wife and the two will become one flesh three parts leave cleave one flesh and if you're really switched on hopefully you'll be able to connect that back to the nature of god but essentially to to leave is the legal part it is about a public ceremony in every culture that's how this idea gets defined in the bible marriage is according to the bible a legally binding thing um in marriage a husband and wife legally belong to each other we call this idea covenant in ancient cultures there would be a marriage procession from the parental house to the new marital house in some cultures a handprint would be left as a reminder you can't have a successful marriage if one or both of the couple prioritize the old relationship with the parents over their partner you have to leave that relationship so leave the legal number two cleave that's an old-fashioned word that simply means to be emotionally joined together leave the legal cleave emotional it's about exclusive intimacy a unique exclusive kind of love in marriage well love in marriage that is a big topic in itself isn't it what does love look like and how do you maintain it as i've said at the start this is a really brief introduction to the topic but let me just say that when the bible talks about love in marriage it's talking about something that includes attraction and romance but it's something that is far far far bigger than romantic love it's about love expressed as commitment love expressed a sacrifice the idea of two being bound together in love now the example i often use of this type of love i tell the story of one of my boys and when he was literally had this old teddy bear called maxi bear and one year when we were on holiday um we realized we'd left it so we drove a couple of hours back to the place we were staying in wales searched everywhere to find it a five-pound teddy bear from asda in one sense of little value but because it was loved it was valuable romantic love well that is the sort of love that celebrates what is lovely what is beautiful it loves what is admirable but the problem with romantic love like that is it fades but the sort of love that sustains marriage is the sort of love that gives value it beautifies it creates value it creates worth like my son's love for that old bear so marriage in the bible is a joining of man and woman legally the leaving emotionally the cleaving and sexually now christians religious people in particular have often in the past made sex out to be this bad dirty thing uh but actually the bible celebrates sex it has lots to say about sex in fact there's a whole book in the bible devoted to the importance of sex but here's the caveat here's the point god gives sex only and exclusively within marriage as something to help strengthen marriage now i'm going to say a little bit more about sex in just maybe a minute or two but so let me move quickly on to the idea of singleness that's point three what does the bible say about singleness well as i've already said there are only two types of relationships celebrated in the bible marriage and non-sexual friendship singleness and i do mean that the bible celebrates singleness as a church as christians i think we got this wrong in the past we've given the impression that marriage is somehow superior to singleness but the truth is if you read the new testament carefully if you look at the earliest christian churches singleness was seen as superior to it's a pendulum swing i mean i mean think about it for a moment the most fulfilled the happiest the most joyful fruitful celebrated person in the whole of human history jesus christ he himself was single all of his life and i'm sorry i'm going to resist the digression of da vinci co-tangents because there's simply no academic historical evidence whatsoever to say that jesus had any form of sexual union that's a digression i'm not going to go down even the apostle paul who wrote most of the new testament and after jesus was probably the second greatest influence on christianity he himself was most probably a widower who then chose to live a single life one of the biggest challenges for both married people and single people is the way that the world around us has elevated and promoted sex the acts of sex has become this huge obsession and focus in society probably because a god made sex to be good it's a good thing and b because sex outside of god's pattern is ultimately unfulfilling and that leads people onto this quest for good sex but with both sex in marriage and celibacy in singleness abstinence and singleness both these ways of life both of them are there to reflect to one another who god is and how god loves so as a christian married man my greatest priority is to my wife kirsten to show her that she is loved and lovable that i am a hundred percent committed to her why because god wants to use me to model and demonstrate to kirsten his love for her and it's the same in christian singleness your singleness is a gift to you to help you to demonstrate to the world your commitment to god and god's commitment to you that his love is enough for you the author peter scazzaro says your singleness is your loudest gospel message to the world and for as long as he keeps you single he will gift you equip you empower you to live in that calling as you look first to him to meet your deepest needs not looking to another human i am out of time there is so much more i would love to say on that topic um but that's the power of small groups so let me simply end with a prayer loving god father son and spirit we need your help empower us in our relationships i pray for every married person watching this video may there be forgiveness and intimacy as they seek to center their marriages around you and i pray for those watching who are single may you envision them in their singleness in this season of life of singleness give them deep friendships and may they know you jesus to be their all sufficiency to be all that they need amen oh man thanks john that was amazing there's so much great content in there and um we're gonna start unpacking that in a few minutes as we go to conversation street so do stop posting your questions or comments on that if you've got any but first of all we're gonna just listen to a song called what a beautiful name um it's a song that's being sung by anna grace farrington who you may have seen speaking on one of these previous sessions um and she's accompanied by her husband and he's also playing piano for her but just listen to the words take a few minutes just reflect and just use this song to kind of yeah just think think about god and listen to what he might want to say to you and then we'll go on to a conversation straight see you in a minute you were the word at the beginning one with god the lord was high you're hidden glory in creation now revealed in you are christ what a beautiful name it is the name of jesus christ my king nothing compares to this jesus you didn't want heaven without us so jesus sin was great your love was greater what could save us what a wonderful name it is jesus christ what a wonderful name it is the name of death could not hold you the fail tore before you you silence the bulls of sin and grace the heavens are roaring the praise of your glory yours is the kingdom yours is the glory yours is the name above all names what a powerful name it name is what a powerful name is there we go what a fantastic song uh what a fantastic song that is by john and grace love it love it love it love it we uh we put in the comments there if you would like to listen to more of the worship that we do on crowd church there is a playlist on youtube where all the songs in theory are added and you can access that and listen to it to your heart's content um i was telling the story this morning anna that one of the songs we put up on youtube last year um oh come on you faithful you know the the christmas carol yeah uh it's it's it's had over seventy five thousand views uh so far yeah it's a really popular song uh about seventeen i think it's about seventy seven thousand views or something like that last time i chase anyway a lot of people really like that song it seems uh maybe you're one of them i don't know but so it's a lovely song anyway let's get into uh this whole thing about marriage and relationships uh it's uh it's as john said at the start of his talk a very emotive topic it is complex it is nuanced it is not necessarily that straightforward and we have got a limited time to talk about it but let's get into it anna let me start off with the first question first impressions of john harding's talk i mean i thought it was good i i think as he's he made the point don't he that it's such a huge topic to cover in like 20 minutes and i think he squeezed a lot in he didn't cover everything but i think he covered some really important points me the biggest takeaway was that we talk a lot about marriage and relationships in church and we don't talk about singleness quite as much and i love the fact that he said singleness is every much every little bit as important as marriage and that actually the two are on sort of on a part typically that they're both they're both um equal before god but not better weighted than the other and i love that um you know i i was someone that didn't get married particularly young so i had a number of years of singleness and yeah i i just really appreciated hearing that i'm sure other people would too yeah so really and i i wrote down actually what he said that um you know the bible celebrates marriage it celebrates singleness and uh for the longest time the church has promoted marriage as superior to singleness um but actually john's comment was when you read the bible and especially the new testament paul's writings for example in 1 corinthians 7 you look at the life of jesus singleness is almost a better way than marriage and uh so i thought that was a really interesting balance that he bought um what's really fascinating is i mean you said you got married uh later on in life i got married in my mid twenties um and i i knew that i needed to get me sorted out before i even got married i was not in a place that where i didn't mean that i had to work on me a fair bit but i grew up in the church i said i grew up in a shower i joined the church at 18. it became quite apparent that one of the first things that you were supposed to do as a young man was to find a wife and get married uh which i don't think is is necessarily that helpful uh did you was that what you experienced yeah i mean but the other way around obviously you know yeah my experience was different in that i grew up in church from being a young kid so um i suppose that wasn't their only message i ever got in church but i think definitely being a young woman growing up in church it's really there's a i i felt there was a really strong um sense of like you need to find a you need to find a christian husband you need to get married and have a family and that there's really just one path for your life and that's marriage and actually as a young 20 something who felt like i had lots to give i i often vote at times that um the opportunities perhaps weren't there not the same opportunities that would have been there i'd be married or better still married to a church pastor you know church leader um i'm not guessing that my dad's a church pastor but yeah i i definitely picked up the message that marriage was something to be sought after um i'm not saying it's not a good thing it is but that that would be better and that actually was more spiritual to be married than single and i didn't i don't think that's true at all and that's been my experience yeah i'd agree with you and i think if that's the message you've heard certainly from us we can only apologize it's not we don't think that's right and i think um you know uh sharon's put here in the comments i'm very glad you spent time searching the bible on what it means to be a good husband it definitely paid off so sharon is my wife by the way if you kind of curious sister who wrote that so just to clarify um so interesting isn't it so uh you got married later on later in life certainly in christian circles it would be deemed a little bit later in life um and uh what sort of things one of the questions that we've been asked about here is can you have a fulfilling life as a single person that was one of the questions that's on my notes here um and john definitely touched on that is there anything you want to add to that yeah i i think every stage of life is different you can have a fulfilling life as a single i certainly did in my 20s i served god i did gap years and missions and travel lots and had an amazing career yeah and just have lots of fun doing lots of different things and you know i've also had a great 30s where i've become married and become a mum and all of these stages of life are different and they have different challenges and one's not better than another but i certainly have less time to kind of serve god now than i did when i was single and younger so you know just my my own and you know my sort of preferences come second to my little boy and i have to bear in mind what my husband needs as well and and sort of like balance all of those things so yeah i tell you what paul says in the bible about how it's in some ways it's better to be single because then you can serve god you know without distraction yeah so yeah i wouldn't i wouldn't say one's better or worse i would say they're different different stages no i totally agree i mean the the scripture you make reference to is one corinthians seven and there's a whole passage there uh i've got it up on my computer here where you know paul talks about various different things and he says each of you should continue to live in whatever situation the lord has placed you and i think it's that kind of wherever you are whatever you find yourself just live a life of god right and just let god's purposes and plans take place in your life and you can be fulfilled in whatever stage you're at and i think singleness has its benefits and i think marriage has its benefits and wherever you are that's awesome you know that and and don't be afraid of that i think we talked about this beforehand um but what is one of the best books on relationships that i can read that's one of the questions that's coming what is the best book on relationships that i can read have you got anything to say other than the blindingly obvious what which is the bible i honestly haven't heard i haven't read many books on marriage and relationships um i think a really good one on marriage is um the marriage book which is by the people who write the alpha course i think really good if you are married and you want some advice on practical things like good communication and strengthening your marriage and you know spending time together and investing in your marriage i think yeah i mean there's there's lots of resources out there there's not really one that jumps out i've heard lots of good talks on marriage and singleness and lots of bad ones as well but i yeah i don't know that one really jumps out on relationships how about you yeah i think i mean i've read lots of books on this whole topic you know and it's it's nice and easy to say the bible there is a specific book i think john alluded to it uh in the bible called the song of solomon which is dedicated pretty much to this whole uh idea of romance and relationships and it's a bit steamy that book uh that i think traditionally jewish boys were not allowed to read it until they were 16. um there there are a few things in there which you kind of go okay well maybe you know this is helpful for most um i i think that's very good and there's been some great teaching around uh around the song of solomon but like you i think there's a few books that i there's definitely a few books i've read that have helped me one of which sharon will be laughing now men are from mars women are from venus which is a fairly old book but it's all about communication and how men communicate like martians and women communicate like they're from venus like venusians i don't know what you call someone from venus anyway it's two different languages uh and so that was very helpful for me to understand uh and help um me understand communication a little bit better that's for sure but i think there's a lot of stuff out there and i think um the five languages of love is a good book to read i mean some of these are secular books some of them aren't um but i think fundamentally um any i i read a book by i try to remember the lady's name mrs hagan i can't remember her first name she wrote a book called the price is not greater than god's grace um talking about her marriage which was just phenomenal um and i think you know get a for me the best thing that i did honestly it was good to read books it really was but the best thing i did was i hung out with married couples uh when i was in my mid-20s because i um i grew up in a divorced house my parents divorced when i was nine i'd not seen what it what a happy marriage was like and i think if you've if you've grown up in a family with a mum and dad that have stayed married i think you have a very different outlook on life than if you grow up in a home where actually there's a lot of broken relationships and unhappiness and maybe there's a lot of cheating going on jeremy and all this what you get taught by osmosis is quite fascinating um especially when you throw modern culture into that and what comes across on tv is acceptable and so the best thing that i ever did was just hang out with people like dave and julie connolly and just just watch them do life together you know and understand um that actually you can have a great marriage so um yeah that i kind of got off on one there but that that's my answer i think i think that was really good advice so and i'd say that's not you know i'd say that right across the piece so whether you're whatever your relationship status whether you're married or you're single i think for me something i've really realized more and more and even since i've been married is that family is god's design and marriage is part of family but also like family is so much broader than just the nuclear like i've talked about this before but like our family like i'm married we've got one child and we'd always hope to have a bigger family and that's not been possible for us but you know it's again it's challenged me and it was a challenge when i was single as well to kind of think family isn't just about your nuclear family it's about it's about friends and your wider community and i think community is so important whether you're you know just because you're in a marriage doesn't mean you're not lonely and just because you're single doesn't mean you are but i think to kind of not expect one relationship to ever give you everything and i think john made that point that ultimately god is your most important relationship above and beyond that i think just being part of a bigger church family and community and friendship groups around you and you know if you're married looking out for single people and having them around and vice versa that that kind of stuff made was really important for me and even now that i'm in a family i think hanging out with other families still having singles around it's it's still really important to me because my little family doesn't fulfill all my needs either in terms of relationship and connection either so yeah i think it's it's so important to see ourselves as part of a bigger community and a bigger church family as well yeah that's really good that's really good um one of the questions that's come in and i i really want to get into this because i've seen the this question actually cause a lot of problems uh in people is there uh just one person for us to marry does the bible say that there is one person for us to marry and that's it that's a good question isn't it it is what do you think oh are you gonna put me on the spot first okay i think not i don't think there is one just one person i think in lots of areas of life god gives us choice he could you know feel like there's lots of choices that god gives us what you do what you know where you work um where you live how you live who you marry i think they're all things that god gives us free choice on and actually destiny isn't something that's really narrow and really defined like as far as i can read in the bible life is about love god love people and bet their absolutes to live by and that's what jesus says is the greatest commandments and everything else i think is more pretty much up for grabs like you know god's like the rest of it you know as long as you're seeking to honor me and love me and love those around you it's kind of up to what you do with your time and your life and how you live and the choices you make so no i do i don't think there is one person and and that's not been my experience i don't think i i've you know i've dated people probably that i could have gone on and married and didn't for different reasons and i i think you can make it you know i think you've got a choice and make a decision and then and and also i think you can make a decision and marry someone and you know i've seen friends that this has happened to you as well that they've gone into a marriage and genuinely believed it would be forever and that they were making the right decision and then the other person's made decisions later that have undone that marriage yeah you you can't always know what's ahead and you know we make decisions based on the knowledge we've got in front of us yeah and you know we try to honor god um i think that's best we can do and no i don't think it's as narrow as this one one thin path then if you miss it and you've missed it yeah i'd agree and the reason i wanted to get into this i mean you've mentioned it i've seen it where usually men uh and i'm gonna pick on the men because you know i can right um uh it's usually there's a man in the relationship that goes oh there's only one person that i was destined to marry and obviously the person i've married is not that person you mentioned earlier when we're off camera when you bring two perfect people imperfect people together you're gonna get an imperfect marriage right it just is it's gonna have conflict it's gonna have tension it's not going to be you know the fairy tale the cosby's there's reality involved in this and you have to work hard at it and so i've seen people uh who shall remain nameless but i know people that have said this was not the person god you know ordained for me to marry therefore i'm going to leave them because this person over here is obviously the person that god has all day for me to marry um and i think it's dangerous thinking uh and like you i kind of think we have a choice we have a choice in whom we marry but here's the key right once you have got married then that that is the one person god has got for you right so you that's it right you just you're there and you've got to think that way and you've got to act like that um wherever possibly it's not always possible but i think absolutely it's it's phenomenal um uh sharon has put here in the comments all the boundaries so going back to the idea of um books uh can you what's the best book on relationships that i can read that was a question so all the boundaries books are great there is one series called boundaries in marriage by dr john townsend so uh read that and that will no doubt be all the boundaries stuff is good actually um so uh i have to have to do that here's a question for you let's come in what up as if i've got divorced um and because again a lot of the church's teaching is get married don't get divorced um and i think there are occasions where divorce is permissible um might be a little bit shocking to say we have done a little bit teaching on this in the past you can check out those videos if you like um there are occasions where divorce may be permissible um i personally don't have an issue with remarriage for example i know people have got divorced and then is there an issue with remarriage in church again we've done stuff on that in the past which you can check out and i think um the bottom line is this god's grace is big enough right we are all flawed and fallen human beings and i think there is things where we do have god's perfect best and his is ideal which we don't attain can god's grace cover that yes can he work through that yes um can forgiveness rule and reign yes um and i think can god work in a marriage that's complex and difficult yes you know that there's a lot this is why we said right at the start this is complex uh this is a complex topic and i think um again wherever you are on the spectrum god loves you first and foremost in your relationship with him work on that you know is the primary thing have you got anything to throw in there anna did i miss anything on that no i agree and i think you're right there's there's a lot of grace and i think god is for people listening for relationships and he wants them to work he wants to help us make them work but sometimes for lots of complex reasons they just don't people make bad decisions and hurt one another and break things i think god's got grace for that um and i also think he has the ability to turn situations around so like talks about remarriage i think you know i've seen that with friends who've had divorces you know and been left heartbreaking really um by you know partners walking out on them and stuff like that and you know god's been gracious and brought someone else their life afterwards and i think that's an amazing thing i think that's god's grace and his restoration and yeah i just think the bottom line is god is for us and he loves us and i love the fact that john started there that's his very first point in that talk i think it's so true and that's kind of the bottom line you've got to keep coming back to run this kind of legalism about rules you know cause god gives us boundaries but the bottom line is his love for us and his grace yeah absolutely sharon's put here i love uh love it that god is a god of redemption and can bring good out of our messy situations and where we or other people have made a mess i totally agree with that so and i think that's that's the key message in all of this isn't it really um i think my testimony is this been married for 23 years i wrote it down the actual number so i got it right um i've been married 23 years marriage for me has been incredible um and i mean just way more than i ever expected it to be i've you know i looked out um i've definitely punched above my weight and the fact that sharon has not killed me yet is just nothing short of a miracle let me tell you i'm not the easiest person to live with and i think my story is this i came from a broken family i'd never seen a a relationship that had worked but i i felt like i could get married that was something that was was right for me and my story 23 years later is it has just been extraordinary and it gets better and better and i think when you do it god's way and you follow god's rules and you follow god's plan and purposes it just seems to work out it's not saying it's easy but it is amazing uh and so yeah tracy's put here you are loved big matt yeah absolutely i think she's talking to matt crew maybe me as well i don't know maybe the both of us um so one of the comments uh uh one of the questions that's coming is talked about what happens if you're married to a non-christian um and uh that's an interesting one isn't it uh again one corinthians seven paul actually talks about this and i'm just going to read it out to you uh if a christian man has a wife who is not a believer or is not a christian and she is willing to continue living with him he must not leave her and made it making a point here that the decision was with his unchristian wife not him so the christian guy um he is he's to stay married and he is to serve faithfully in that marriage uh as long as she wants to stay married um for the christian uh and if a christian woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing this is one corinthians 7 verse 13. if a christian woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to continue living with her she must not leave him so it's a you know works both way rounds for the christian wife brings holiness to her marriage and the christian husband brings holiness to his and so i think that is that's quite an extraordinary statement to say you bring holiness to your marriage what and i'm gonna throw you right in the deep end what does that mean i think that it probably means that you bring god into your relationship you know put at the most simple level you know as believers each of us carry something of god's presence with us um i think if you if you have that in your life then you bring that into your relationship and you bring it to your partner and to the rest of your family if you've got a family and yeah you know i i often it's so often thrown around that verse about do not be yoked with unbelievers i heard that a lot growing up in church you know it says do not be unequally yoked i do not feel yet yeah and and that that was thrown around a lot in church you know just kind of as a warning like don't marry a non-christian sort of as a teenage christian that's what i was always taught and i think that that you know i'm not saying that's not wise advice is um i think it's easier to have the same faith in a marriage um but i also think again it comes back to god's grace like god's got a lot of grace for relationships and he's for people and he's for relationships and you know i do have a number of friends who have married um people who don't share the same faith as them and i do have a number of friends who are in that situation and they have amazing marriages um and yeah and you know there's lots of different reasons for that um but yeah i think god god's grace is all relationships generally um so yeah i think it can work i think sometimes it can be you know it can take some work and i think you need to kind of be on the same page even if you don't have exactly the same beliefs i think it's easier if you've got the same values and stuff but yeah i i don't think it's always a deal breaker um certainly you know i've seen it work really well for friends he perhaps made those decisions because they were like you know getting on a little bit later into life and hadn't met a christian um i think it's really practical stuff actually um certainly as certainly as a young female in church there aren't as many christian men as there are christian women and churches and that's a really real factor and i know just statistically not every single woman will necessarily meet a christian so um you know arguably singleness is an option isn't it but equally an option you can consider as a non-christian yeah i don't know personally if i'd be in a rush to go down that road but i get what you're saying and i think even if you meet a christian guys and again i've seen this problem you know where women have married christian men because they are christians and that's it but fundamentally they are an utter waste of space and i mean this with all due respect god loves them uh i i'm supposed to love them and i do i just don't necessarily like them you know they're men who are what i would call wet blankets they're not necessarily great husband material they just want you to mother them uh and these are not these are not marriage material at all of equal yoking though doesn't it like that's not just about your faith or your values that's part of it but also there's lots of other areas so you can be equally yoked with a person you can just be a bad match in terms of like i don't know yeah just your values your kind of calling what you want to do in the future like yeah some of it is about common sense like i wouldn't marry someone who says they want to go and live in africa because that's not what i want to do i'm going to disagree with you here and i tell you why because when sharon and i were dating she wanted to go live in africa i didn't at all and i wanted to go live in the states and we in fact broke up over this very topic uh because we felt like we had two very different callings and here's the thing here was my little mini revelation the bible says when two people get to marry get together and they get married the two become one flesh i think when you get married the married couple inherits a new calling from god and i think so the call you have together might not be the same as the call you had as in as singles or as individuals um and you know what we seem to have made it work so i i get that you wouldn't do that i did and it seems to have worked out that's all i'm not saying everyone should do it i'm just saying for me i've done well anyway what's that quote from the jerry maguire film i love my life i love my wife and i wish you my kind of success right it's an amazing thing to be able to say but like we've said many times singleness is celebrated marriage is celebrated whatever state you find yourself in live it in the fullness of god's grace and you know and and be amazed what happens right i'm aware of time so i think we'll wrap up that conversation street there that that was meaty that was fun i feel like we're just scratching the uh the top of the service that surface there it is worth saying i know john i i'm gonna use the word sex i appreciate we are before the watershed um uh john did mention that briefly in his talk we are going to talking uh in the new year kirsten actually john's wife um is going to do the talk what does the bible say about sex that is coming up we are going to get into that whole topic a little bit deeper because we know that is one of the key things that people ask us about that is coming but that's not happening next week anna what's happening next week next week we have got the lovely sloanes john uh james and hannah sloane are going to be this is actually the first time this is happening isn't it where you've got people talking together so it's going to be decided it's a tag team as as the talk and they're talking about money and work so that'll be good again a big one's cover but sounds great yeah it would have been actually interesting to have john and kirsten do the one on marriage i thought that might have been quite interesting to watch one of the things to say actually is in the new year we are thinking of doing the marriage course which is part of the alpha courses where as married couples we get together we have conversations about our marriage communications and that sort of stuff in a way to try and improve our marriage if that is something you would like to know more about do get in touch with us either the website or by the whatsapp number which is on your screen now we would love to hear from you um and we can if there's you know if there's enough interest we may put something together and whack that out there at some point in the early new year so that'll be exciting to do that uh in the meantime just to say uh thank you so much for joining us this week we are gonna play another worship song um and when that song finishes the live stream will automatically end uh so from well from my i i don't want to speak for you anna certainly from me uh it's been it's been great chatting to you shan just put here in the comments we always seem to cover massive subjects in such a short amount of time yes we do that seems to be our mo why give something six months when you can do it in 20 minutes that's absolutely brilliant anna thank you so much for joining me it's been an absolute pleasure again to host with you as always an absolute pleasure to be here it's fun talking and yeah i love the fact we cover so much ground in such a short time it's great it's great wonderful thanks guys bless you and we will see you next week so that's it from us bye for now oh the saints and angels oh the elders cast their crowns before the lamb of god and singing all the saints and angels before you were until you are all things here deserve the glory you deserve the glory and angels the elders cast of god are all things day and night night and day let incense rise day and night night and day let in center rise sensorize day and night night and day lives day and night night and day it is