What Does The Bible Say About Worship?

What Does The Bible Say About Worship_ Matt: [00:00:00] Well, good afternoon and welcome to Crowd Church. Uh, if, uh, this is your first time here. My name is Matt Edmundson. If you dunno who I am and beside me for the first time, drum roll please. Uh, ladies, gentlemen is the beautiful, the talented, the all round good egg. That is Mim Crot, Mim. How you doing? Mim: I'm good. Thanks Matt. Yeah, thanks for that. Very good. The introduction Matt: and I meant every word mim. Now I just saw Matt in the comments wrote that MIM keeps changing to Mum on the auto correct. Uh, and you said, uh, when you read that comment that that happens all the time. Is that right? Mim: All the time I get people phoning me going, hi, mom. Like, no, I'm just really next to mom in the phone, book your practice. So, yeah, quite embarrassing. That's awesome. Matt: You should totally wind people up and go, hello, dear. How you doing? Not that, not that my mom sounds like that. I just [00:01:00] wanna point that out. Right. Uh, I just wanna be super clear. My mom, mom does not sound like that. Um, but yeah. Welcome, welcome to Crowd Church. Uh, we are an online church. For those that don't know, we do all things digital. Uh, and, uh, we're gonna be here probably for the next hour. Um, just doing online church. Today we are talking about worship, which is, uh, I'm not gonna lie, um, men, why you are sat next to me. 'cause John Farrington and I were talking about who should host while we're talking about doing worship. And we went, oh, men would be great. So yeah, thank you for joining us. Mim: No, it's a privilege to be here. Yeah, the topic. Yeah. Passionate about, I guess. Oh, Matt: that's good. That's good. That's helpful. Uh, it'd be a shame if you weren't, why am I allowed? I don't wanna talk about worship. I don't, I don't. Um, but that's great. And we're gonna explain why members' here talking about worship Me, actually, it's probably worth explaining that now you are part of Frontline. I've known you for a while now, a fair few years. Um, and [00:02:00] all the while I've known you, you have been part of the worship team at Frontline, right? Mim: Yeah, yeah. I've been at Frontline since 2004. Wow. And yeah, part of the worship, uh, teams and, you know, back in people or leading worship pretty much since I've been at Frontline. So yeah, it's a big passion. Matt: A big passion and apparently your husband is in the comments. I can see that Mi moorcroft is a hot Mim: Well, I'm glad my husband think I'm a hot, that's, you know. Matt: Yeah. Just to be clear, he's the only person that can put that in the comments. I just wanna point that out. Um, but welcome Andy. It's good to see you now. We were joking beforehand, weren't we? 'cause Andy is also a worship leader. Uh, and we were just, I was joking actually. So we, me was predominantly joking, saying, do, is it in your house? Do you just sing all the time? 'cause you're both worship leaders. Yeah. Mim: Full of songs of the Lord. I get my half out, [00:03:00] Andy gets his loud crashing cymbals and yeah, just make this lovely music 24 7. Matt: It's the worship zone. The worship zone. Very good. Mim: You're actually real people. So, yeah. Matt: And Andy has to sort that beard out. So he has to take a break every now and again just to just, 'cause that is, is a beautiful beard. Mim: Beard station takes up half of our bedrooms. Matt: That's awesome. Okay, the rest of us now want you to go take a photograph of a said beer station and post on social media. Um, so yeah. Uh, Andy, uh, Mims husband, who I've also known for a while, has got this most amazing beard that I'm envious of. And I think just about every man out there is envious of. And, uh, I, I saw him today with his mask on and I love the mask that comes down and covers the beard as well, you know, because the beard needs protection, right? Mim: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Matt: [00:04:00] Brilliant. Right? We are in fact church. We are not here, uh, to talk about grooming. Uh, but uh, let's get back to church business. Min, what's gonna happen today? Let's tell the good folks what they can Mim: expect. So, yeah, today Matt, we are gonna have some worship to begin with and then we're gonna have a great talk by John Farrington. He's gonna tell us what the Bible says about worship. We are gonna have Conversation Street, which is where we discuss all about that amazing talk. And then we're gonna have some worship to finish as well. Matt: Yes, we are. Yes, we are. One slight correction, if I may. We're gonna have the talk first and then we're gonna have the worship, but that's okay. That's okay. We're just gonna do it that way around 'cause that's the way it is on my system and I can't change it now. Um, so yeah, we're gonna do the talk now. John Farrington, uh, you will have, if you are a regular Crowd or you've been to Crow before, you will have come across Mr. Farrington before, uh, John has kindly done this talk. What does the Bible say about worship? So we are gonna get [00:05:00] into that talk pretty much straight away. Then I'll be back, um, after that to talk about the worship section. Then Mim and I are gonna get into this whole conversation about worship. You are not gonna wanna miss it. Make sure you write any questions, comments as we go along in the comments, uh, as we will get to them in Conversation Street. But for now, here is the legend, which is Mr. John Frankton asking the question, what does the Bible say about worship?[00:06:00] John: What does the Bible say about worship? Hello, lovely people of Crowd Church. As with a lot of the topics that we've been looking at in the, what does the Bible say about series, the Bible does indeed have a lot to say regarding worship. In one sense, the entire book is an instruction manual on how to worship God. Before we go any further, I think it would be appropriate to define what I mean by worship. What is worship according to [00:07:00] the Bible? And I think there are two kinds that the Bible defines. There's number one, the act of worship, and number two, the lifestyle of worship and act of worship to God is. Something that we intentionally do or say to place him above anything else in our lives to declare that he is the most important. An example from the Bible of this might be when, um, Mary Magdalene anointed Jesus with a perfume that was probably the equivalent to about a year's wages. Matt talked about that story on remembrance Sunday, a couple of months back. A lifestyle of worship is looking at every individual activity that takes place in your life and seeing if when you add them all together, whether God is ultimately exalted, lifted up and glorified by the way that you live. [00:08:00] So how does the Bible say we should worship until Jesus came along? Worship had become synonymous with sacrifices and burnt offerings. It was all about following the letter of the law that God had laid down for his chosen people, Israel. Now this law was good. It was through the law that the Israelites were instructed on how to receive forgiveness for their sins. It taught them how to stay healthy and live a moral godly life. It also taught them how to be set apart and stand out from the other nations and tribes of that day. The Israelites glorified God through obeying the law. However, in the New Testament, after Jesus Christ has died and risen again for our sins, the author of Hebrews says, this, [00:09:00] sacrifices and offerings you God, have not desired in burnt offerings and sin offerings. You have taken no pleasure. That's Hebrews 10, verse five to six. So now. We've got a problem. On the one hand in the Old Testament, there's um, an instruction after instruction and book after book involving the required offerings and sacrifices that must be made in order to be made right before God and to plead him. But here in the New Testament, it's saying God doesn't want these things. Well, that seems like a slight contradiction. In short, the problem was the law was too good and nobody was good enough to keep it. It revealed our sinful nature. That's why God had to send Jesus as our sub substitute. He was the only one who could fulfill the law. If you want [00:10:00] to know more about why Jesus had to die, um, you can check out my brother Peter Farrington's talk here. So if offerings and altars aren't the way forward in worship. Well, what is, well, let's ask, what does Jesus say about worship? One time when Jesus was out and about in the temple, uh, he gets asked by one of the scribes there, what is the greatest commandment in the law? Jesus replies, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength. The second is this, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. And that's in Mark 12 verse 30. So this is what I'm talking about when I say a lifestyle of worship. That is worship. Uh, [00:11:00] that is worship. Jesus isn't talking about a, uh, specific action here, but our whole lives, we are to love God and to honor him in everything that we do. It is also a wonderful answer because Jesus is actually quoting two verses from the Old Testament law, which highlights that from the very beginning, God intended us to live a lifestyle of worship. God wasn't ever really interested in the one-off act of worship if it wasn't followed up by a long-term permanent devotion to him. It wasn't like he said one thing in the Old Testament and then changed his mind in the New Testament. His intention all along was for us to live a life in faithful obedience to him and his word. In fact, he commands us to do so. Matthew 16, verse 24 to 26 says this. Then Jesus told his disciples, if anyone would [00:12:00] come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it. But whoever loses his life, for my sake, will find it for what will profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul. Or what shall a man give in return for his soul? That is what pleases God and brings him glory. Interestingly, it still involves a sacrifice. We sacrifice our lives and offer it up to God so that we might find life in him. Even though God has said he no longer wants the sacrifices and offerings of the Old Testament, there is a new sacrifice required of us, which is to lay down our lives for Jesus. We are called to give up our plans, our dreams, and our wants to follow him. Worship involves sacrifice. King David alludes to this in the book of two Samuel 24, verse 24, [00:13:00] where he says, I will not offer burnt offerings to the Lord My God, that cost me nothing. Similarly in Romans 12 verse one, Paul appeals to the reader by the mercies of God to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. So why am I making such a deal outta this to begin with? Well, because I think if you are familiar with church and have been in Christian circles for a while, it's become easily, it's become easy to um, only associate worship with singing songs on a Sunday morning. But God wants a whole existence to be about him and to reflect him. If we look into the mirror of our lives, then the reflection we should see is the glory of Jesus, [00:14:00] therefore the lifestyle of worship that God calls us to. It is lived out through deliberate act of worship every day. I do though, just want to take a moment to say that I think music and singing as is, um, an incredibly important part of how God wants us to worship him. That's why our Sunday services are filled with music. The Book of Psalms and the Old Testament is a book completely devoted to songs and poetry to God. Paul encourages us as Christians to gather regularly addressing one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart. That's from Ephesians five, verse 19. In Revelation, the last book of the Bible, it speaks of how the great multitude of heaven will sing songs of praise and worship to God [00:15:00] for eternity. It is also something that I am incredibly passionate about and I also wish I had more time to talk about with you here. Um, maybe our good hosts today will cover that more later on in, um, Conversation Street. But what I felt was really important to highlight to you today is that worship is not limited to singing songs and making music far from it. You can worship God, um, in the way that you love and serve your spouse. You can worship in the way you talk about others. You can worship in the way that you use your gifts and talents. In John's gospel, um, Jesus has a pretty interesting conversation with a woman who's been asking, uh, him questions about the [00:16:00] Jewish law and sacrifices. He says, but the hour is coming and is now here when the true worshipers will worship the father in spirit. And truth for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit and those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. That's John four, verse 23 to 24. So what does Jesus mean by worshiping in spirit and truth? Well, let's split it up for a second. So starting with spirit, I think the answer to this is twofold. So firstly. It refers to an inward heartfelt sincerity that you truly believe in what you are worshiping. Um, this might cause you to worship, um, outwardly in emotive and expressive ways. Um, for example, in pretty much all of the major sports settings, the Crowd [00:17:00] audience express their heartfelt support of whichever team or individual they're cheering on by shouting or singing words of encouragement and affirmation. For some people, this is worship. That sport, that sports person is so important to the supporters life that it has become worship to them. The second part to this definition of spirit is in reference to the Holy Spirit, the the third person of the trinity. It means your life of worship has been breathed on by the spirit of God and is alive in him. You will know this has happened by the fruit of your worship. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control. Those are the fruits. Truth means to do this in the knowledge and understanding of what the Bible says about who God is and how he has called us to live the two work in tandem. So that is [00:18:00] how we are called to worship and every individual act of worship is to be done in spirit and in truth, act of worship that come from the heart, that are breathed on by the Holy Spirit and are done in the knowledge of who God is and according to how he has called us to live. So one last thing I wanted to touch on, um, before I finish is this. You might be listening to me talking right now and you might be thinking. Why does God need us to worship him so badly? Is he so insecure that he needs us mere mortals to pet his ego for him? No. The thing is God is perfect. He is 100% holy, 100% loving, 100% merciful, 100% gracious, 100% righteous. [00:19:00] He is completely good. So think about it like this. If you have children, you would want your kids to make good friends. You might even organize hangouts with certain families because you want your child to be good friends with their child. You know that they'll, uh, you know that they'll be good for your child. Well, it's a bit like that with God. God's looking for the best people for us to be with. And actually, that's it. God. It's the best person for us to spend time with. Why wouldn't we want to be with someone who is? All of these things imp perfection. God wants us to live a life in relationship with him because he knows he is the best thing for us and is the only one who can bring us complete satisfaction. The psalmist says this, in your presence, there is fullness of joy [00:20:00] and that your right hand are pleasures forevermore. Psalm 16, verse 11. So that's the first part. The second part is this, all of us worship something. All of us devote our lives to something, be that our families, our jobs, our hobbies, ourselves, anything. The problem is with that is God does not share His glory with anyone or anything. Isaiah 42 8 says this. My glory I give to no other God simply refuses for anything else to be on the throne of our lives except him. Why? Again? Because he's the only one worthy of it. Only He's perfect. All of these other things disappoint. None of them satisfy. That is why God commands us to worship him. He knows that he is the [00:21:00] best thing for us. His glorification is the best thing for us. The old Westminster Catechism puts it like this. The chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. So how do we glorify God then by enjoying him forever? God's glory is his greatest priority, and it should be ours too to part three. If, um, if you're still not convinced by what has been said so far. God is worthy of your praise. I would encourage you to look to the cross, look to what Christ did for you on the cross. Through his death and resurrection. We were once lost forever in sin, so far removed from God's holiness, but through Jesus, we are forgiven and can come into relationship with the God of heaven and earth. The one who breathed the galaxies into being the one who knew you before [00:22:00] time began. The God who is holy, who is perfect in love, perfect in mercy, perfect in grace. He's the only one who satisfies and the only one worthy of worship To use Cs Lewis's analogy, don't be like the ignorant child. He wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the Sea. E, in other words. Don't be content with the life devoted to anything but the best. Matt: Thanks John. What do you think to that? What do you think to, um, to John's talk there? Fascinating conversation, isn't it? Um, write your questions. Write your thoughts, write 'em in the comments below. 'cause uh, mi and I will be back, uh, to talk about those in Conversation Street. We've got a whole bunch of questions already, so I'm looking forward to this conversation with them. Not gonna lie. Looking forward to, but well done. John. [00:23:00] Enjoyed that conversation. It was good to think about some of those things, wasn't it? So what we are gonna do before we go and enter into that conversation is we are gonna have a time of worship and reflection. So John talked a little bit in there about singing and music, and whilst that's not the be all and end all of worship, it is one of the ways which we worship God. So, which is the reason why we play, uh, songs on Crowd, which ironically John has recorded, uh, with his wife. So we're singing a song called Worthy of It All. Uh, and it's worth just pointing out in there, this song is kind of set. Um, it's talking, it talks about how elders cast down their crowns before the Lamb of God. And when it uses this na analogy, if you're new to the Christian, uh, faith, the elders, basically the people that have gone before us and the crowns, the Bible talks about how we get this sort of crown, this reward, uh, when we're in heaven for what we've, you know, for [00:24:00] basically for what we've done in some respects. But it's this, this reward. And, and, and what is happening is all the people that get this crown from God just basically going, all this is for you. I'm laying it down for you at your feet. I'm, it was all worth it. You are worth it. And so they're putting their crayons down at the feet of God. And it's a beautiful analogy that actually it's not a wasted life, that actually it's a life worth living. It's a meaningful life as we like to call it. Um, and so when you read that, that's in effect what's going on. The other thing to note in this song is it talks about how day and night. Incense arises before God. And it's again, another beautiful, uh, picture of what's happening in the throne room of heaven, that as we pray and as we worship God, the Bible talks about how they come up like incense before his throne. I dunno if you've got any of those candles, which you just adore the smell of, and whenever they're lit, you're just, it's just so beautiful and it's nice and it's wonderful and you just love it. Well, that's what our worship is like before God. And day and night this [00:25:00] incense arises, uh, as people praise him and worship him. And it's a beautiful thing of what's going on. So we're gonna do the worship now. If you are able sing along, join in. Otherwise just read the words, um, and just mull 'em over, chew on them. And then mim and I will be back in just a few short minutes to do Conversation Street. So do get busy writing your questions and ideas and thoughts in the comments below. I'll see you in just a few.[00:26:00] Video: The. The[00:27:00] glory.[00:28:00] The things the. The[00:29:00] the day. Day and night.[00:30:00] You're the you.[00:31:00] Matt: Well, there you go. Welcome back, Mim. We're gonna get into this whole thing about worship. Yes, we are. And uh, I put there in the comments just, uh, so you know, if you want to listen to a lot of the songs that John and Anna, grace and Josh and team and all those guys have worked hard on doing, you can check them out on the YouTube playlist, which are posted in the comments, uh, both on Facebook and YouTube. Depending on what you're watching, you can go ahead and just watch that and listen to it to your heart's content because they do have some talent it seems. Uh, do the Farringtons. Um, and John is actually also moderating the comments, so be sure to say hi to John. Uh, he's in the comments, so say hello Tim as well. I'm sure it'd appreciate it. So me first time at crowds, first time hosting, what did you think of John's talk? Mim: What is fantastic. Yeah, [00:32:00] John was great. Matt: I don't actually know if there's another answer to that question with the way I answer Mim: it. I know. Well, the thing is, he covered it in so much detail. I was very, very thorough. Really enjoyed it. Thanks a lot, John. Yeah, yeah. Matt: Well done John. Well done John. It is, as he says, a passion, uh, of his worship. And it seems to me mi right, like, uh, I've been a Christian A. Little while now, been around a few years. There are Christians who have, uh, we, we, we love to use the word passion in church, don't we? I have a passion for worship. Some people have a passion for Prayer. Some people have a passion for serving some. Um, I would maybe use the word calling. Do you know what I mean? There's another phrase in there calling, do you share that sort of same sense of passion and I, uh, and calling maybe that John shares when it comes to worship. Mim: Absolutely. Yeah, I think I'm quite a musical person, so in a musical sense, in the music form of worship, I have been [00:33:00] very kind of submerged in that my entire life. So it's something that I've grown up with being surrounded by hearing lots of learning, lots of in instru instruments, attending church all my life. So I've kind of been immersed in, in that kind of music form of worship. And also had great example from my parents of kind of acting out daily worship, a life that lifestyle of worship that John was talking about. So I've had such great example, really throughout my life. So yeah, it's kind of just kind of integrated into who I am now, I think. Matt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's part of who you are. And is that why? 'cause I mean, I mean, doing worship at church is quite an interesting thing. I mean, in one sense you're on the stage, um, and it's great and it's wonderful. But on the other sense, there's all the prep, there's all the hard work behind the scenes that you, what should we sing? What should we do? How do we do it? And then there's, of course, you're looking out over a bunch of people in church that might not wanna worship God that day that are just a little bit s sluggish. So it's not [00:34:00] all glamor and glitz, I'm fairly sure. But, um, but do you find there is a difference between worshiping God on the stage and worshiping God in this lifestyle that John was talking about this day to day? Mim: Yeah. In terms of your day-to-day worship often is very practical and in the normal things of your day-to-day life. Absolutely. It's watching what you say and how you behave and act towards each other. How you treat your husband, your children, how you kind of interact with the people you work with or study with. Mm. Um, yeah, it's much more beyond that. Singing a song on a Sunday morning. Definitely. Matt: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? I think, um, the Bible talks about how both blessed and curse can come out of the same mouth. There's this really interesting scripture, you know, it's like, how is this even possible? How can you praise God with your lips and yet at the same time do all these other crazy things? [00:35:00] And for so long, I think people have thought. That if worship is about singing songs in church, I'm okay. But what John drew out, which I thought was really interesting, and what you've just alluded to there, is actually, worship is not just about singing songs in church. It is about how you talk about people. It is about how you treat your husband or your wife. Um, why do you think that is? Why do you think that's the way it is? Mim: Because I, I think God made us to worship him. Mm-hmm. So I think everything about us, us is intended to glorify God. So we need to make sure that every kind of tiny detail of our life, when we look at it, reflects God's glory. And if it reflects God's glory, then other people will see God's glory. And that's what we're called to do and be. For other people. Matt: So can I ask you a really obvious question then? Um, yeah, I think I know the answer, but I just wanna, [00:36:00] I just want to just clarify some terms. What do you think it means to glorify God? So if worship is glorifying to God, what does that actually mean to give glory to God? Is it like something I have in a bag that I can just give to my, I mean, Do you know what I mean? It's a really interesting phrase, isn't it? What does it mean to glorify good? Mim: Well, well, I, I think firstly it's important to understand that, uh, you know, when John was talking about. How we worship in spirit and truth. It has to be kind of born out of that relationship with God in the first place. Matt: Mm. Mim: So when we spend time with God and we are, uh, learning about him and his truth and how he sees us as people and how he sees other people, that in turn as the more time we spend kind of dwelling on that and thinking about that and wondering about how that, um, will kind of live out in our own lives, the more it kind of just oozes out of us. So all the good things [00:37:00] that God is and God speaks about and all the truth that he kind of talks about in the Bible, should as we, as it goes into us, should then come out the other side. And I think that's the bit that gives glory to God. 'cause it goes right back in this kind of circle all the way back to God who kind of told us all about it in the first place. Um, and I think a useful analogy actually is, um, when we have that, you know, I think most people would've been in love. And, um, when we're in love with somebody, uh, they, they kind of love us. We love them, and we just immerse ourselves in them. We think about them all the time. We talk to them. We wanna spend time with them, we spend our money on them. We think about gifts we can get for them, and, and in the end we end up kind of. Merging in a way, you end up kind of becoming like that person because you spend so much time with that person. And [00:38:00] I remember coming home from school and my mom used to know exactly who I'd spent time with. She'd be like, you, you're talking just like them, and why are you saying that? And you've been spending time with that girl, haven't you? Or that person. And you know, so you know who, who you are prioritizing and who you are, um, devoting your passion and your attention to what, because it naturally then comes outta you. Matt: That's a really interesting point. I mean, the Bible says that bad company corrupts good character and it, I, I do, I get this point that who you hang around is who you become. Do you know what I mean? It's a really interesting idea. And so, uh, this idea that if I worship God and hang around God, I'm going to become like God, uh, or more godly, uh, more God-like is, is is quite interesting. Tracy's put here in the comments, is it safe to say that we were built for worship and therefore are always [00:39:00] worshiping, uh, and we should make a conscious decision to worship? God, that's a good question. Tracy. Thanks for your question. What do you think? Me? Mim: Yeah, I think that's, that's a great way to summarize it, really. Um, I think the intention is always there to, to reflect, um, God's glory and to, to bring that worship back to God. Absolutely. Matt: Mm-hmm. Mim: Um, so I think, I think whether or not, you know, whatever we're doing, we're sending out a message. We're either worshiping God by what we do or we're not. I think it's very clear in the Bible, um, you know, that we. We're, we are choosing the right way or we're going the opposite way, and there's no in between. So yeah, we've gotta be careful and, you know, we're not perfect. We're all gonna make mistakes. We're gonna fly off the handle and we're gonna do and say wrong. I can't Matt: believe you would do that for one minute, ma. Mim: I hold it all in and then I erupt, like awful there. It's [00:40:00] yeah. Ugly to see. Uh, but no, you know, we're, we're real people, aren't we? Mm-hmm. We're, we're gonna make mistakes, but God is really gracious and you know, I think he's not a God who, who goes, you know, picks up on all the wrong things that we are doing. But he is, he's gracious with us and he just gently goes, actually anything, you know, don't you, you know, in your gut, oh, that was the wrong thing to do and you know, next time we'll do better. Matt: So what do you think? Um. What do you think Tracy's talking about? Where she says here, should we make a conscious decision to worship God? A conscious decision, I think is, is quite interesting language. Um, do you make a conscious, I mean, there, there, I guess if I'm, you know, I listen to you, I listen to John and, and I've been around church and, and heard people talk about this. There are things that we do by default, the way we are, the way that we act. Um, and then sometimes there are times when we deliberately have to do something where we are [00:41:00] intentional. We make a conscious decision to do things like worship God. Like we don't always feel like worship God worshiping God, but we make a decisions to do that. Have you experienced that, for example? Mim: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So. I was just saying actually yesterday, I had an awful day. Just things just were very, very wrong and, um, on all different levels. Um, but, you know, things were creeping in lies about me, about my family, and, um, this morning I had to make a conscious decision in church to sing out truth. Um, and actually as I sang out that truth, um, you know, God then speaks into the lies. So when we feel like actually we can't worship or, you know, we have nothing to bring by choosing to worship, um, God just really meets you where you are and gives you exactly what you [00:42:00] need in that moment. Um, so yeah, I, yeah. Was that Matt: your experience today? Mim: Absolutely. Yeah. That was my experience this morning. Yeah. Matt: Yeah. That's good. Which is good. And I think you're right, I think tonight. Mim: Yeah. Matt: Yeah, yeah. I, I think, I think it's good to, I, I, I do think I, when people see worship leaders sometimes, I think they just, there are certain perceptions that people have about Jim and various different people in church, and it's not all, you know, floating on rainbows and singing beautiful songs. Um, there are some real hard decisions that we have to make and some key decisions, uh, key choices that you have to make. And actually the, the conscious decision to worship God, irrespective of whether you feel like it or whether you don't, is a supreme act of faith and love. I think because you. You're actually going. It doesn't, in some respects, I, I, this is how I feel. I'm not denying it. I'm acknowledging how I feel, but in spite of that, God, you are still worthy of my worship, whatever it is that I can bring. It might not be a whole great deal right now, but whatever it is, you can [00:43:00] take it. Right. And, and I, I can bring what I can and it's not gonna be perfect. It's not gonna be in tune. It might be full of tears and emotion, but at at least it's there, right? Mim: Absolutely. Yeah. I think there's, there's this kind of, um, what, how, how do I describe it? Like a pull between, um, your sinful self. The Bible talks about your sinful self, or we'll call that kind of your human worldly self and your spiritual self. And, um, you know, that pull between the two and whichever one you feed the most wins. So in that kind of earthly moment yesterday that I had of, oh, this is awful. This is terrible. I feel like this. And, you know, I was feeding that yesterday and feeling terrible. And actually this morning when I chose to connect with my spiritual self and connect my spirit to God's spirit, that's when God breaks through. And when you feed that [00:44:00] side, um, God can speak truth into what seems a hopeless situation or a situation where, you know. You're feeling that terrible or you know, something happened. Um, yeah, that's when the moment of breakthrough can happen. Um, and I think the choices is an important thing, isn't it? Because God doesn't ever force us to do anything. He doesn't say you, you must, you know, worship him, do it now. And he, he can't force us. We have to choose to do it. And it's that intentional connection with God and he loves it. And he just goes, yeah, great. I'm so glad you came to me. Here you go. Here's what you need for today. So, yeah. Matt: Yeah. No, that's great. I always think worship is an invitation, not an instruction. Yeah. And, um. And it's interesting 'cause again, John talked about this, um, you know, why does God need us to worship him so badly? Is he just some kind of ego manic? And the Bible tells us clearly. Um, Paul wrote about this in Corinthians. He said that love talking about God is not self-seeking. Um, and [00:45:00] so God is not self-seeking. Uh, but worship is part of who we are. It's part of our being. Now you talked a lot about, um, gonna church this morning. And actually, I, I didn't tell you this on the livestream. What was lovely was I stood at the back of church this morning and I saw, uh, I caught you and Andy out the corner of my eye, had his arm around you while you were doing some worship and hugging in. And it was sweet and it was lovely. And I love that you two were worshiping together this morning and that was great. Are there forms of worship that don't involve music? Was one of the questions, and I know John's touched a little bit about like how you talk about your wife, but are there other forms of worship that you can do, for example, that don't involve music? Mim: Yeah, absolutely. I think anything could be worshiped to God if you do it well and you do it for him. Mm-hmm. So doing it well just means that when John talks about, um, you know, doing it in spirit and in truth, that kind of the whole involving your whole self and doing it to glorify God. If you do something to glorify [00:46:00] yourself, it's not wor well, it is worship. You're worshiping yourself. Um, but if you do it to glorify God, then yes, anything, you know, God's given us talents he's given us. Mm. You know. Places to work and people to be with and to live with. And if we do all that to glorify him, that absolutely is part of worship. Matt: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I've seen, I mean, God's an supremely creative being, it seems, uh, and he has very creative people that do very creative things to worship God. And I've seen people do everything from singing to dance, to painting, to whatever. Do you know what I mean? There's all kinds of things going now, I have to be honest with you, I'm, I'm a simple bloke. Right. Which means a lot of it I don't get right. It's not, as we say in England, it's not my cup of tea. But you know what, that's okay because I'm just wired differently and I don't have to do things like everybody else because I have my own relationship with God, and I can worship by God in ways that makes sense for me. Like, I like to go out for long walks, for example. [00:47:00] Um, would you, I. Uh, would you, have you seen, I guess, this worship comparison thing in church, which says there is, there is this pattern, there is this sort of thing which says, I have to worship God this way and, and if I don't, then it's then obviously there's something wrong with me. Do you know what I mean? Have you seen that or come across that? Mim: Yeah, I think maybe in the sense of, you know, you see people up on the stage, you know, and people who work for church and maybe think their form of worship is more kind of godly or spiritual and you know, I just work in a hospital or I work in an office and how can. You know, my worship isn't quite as good, but that is absolutely not the case. Um, we were talking this morning all credit to Sue and Chris Holcomb who was sharing about how they, um, you know, how they work out their relationship with God in their workplace. Um, and it's so important because, you know, if we're all [00:48:00] stuck in a church, working in church, then we wouldn't be amongst people who need to see the glory of God and us, us worshiping God with our lives. Mm-hmm. So we need to be out there doing our everyday forms of worship and, you know, living that example, um, of who God is to people who don't know God. Matt: Yeah, that's a very good point. And it's worth pointing out that Chris and Sue Holcomb, uh, are gonna be with us next week, uh, on our live stream next week. They're hosting with me, actually. We're talking about what does the Bible say about health. It'll become clear why Chris and Sue Holcomb are joining us next week, uh, when we talk about health. But they are so do come join us for that because Chris and Sue Legends just legends in the making. Uh, Tracy says, my husband says that protecting our worship and not letting distraction in is important. Now, this is a real, this brings me back actually to something, um, that we started to touch on a bit earlier, that worship, uh, [00:49:00] obviously you went, you decided you were gonna go to church this morning and sing and worship because of rubbish that happened yesterday. What would happen tomorrow morning when church isn't open? What kind of things do you do to, um. Yourself in your own personal life. I mean, not everybody might do this, but how do, how do, how do you bring worship into your daily life other than talking well about your husband, um, and, uh, protecting your worship and not getting distracted? Mim: Yeah, I think that's really important. 'cause I think nowadays, um, I don't think many of us feel like we have large amounts of time to devote. To, you know, spending hours and hours reading our Bible and praying and all that, those kind of forms of worship. So, you know, apart from acting out, um, you know, worship to others and within our workplace, it's just grabbing those moments. So for me, I have worship music on, in the car on the way to and from school, drop off, pickup on the way to work and back. [00:50:00] So I, I take those snippets of time in the car, um, for worship, musical worship. Um, and then generally I read a, a book by Max Ludo a very long time ago. I hate reading. Reading. And he, yeah, he's so good at writing books that Yeah, he's, yeah. Very good. Easy to read. Yeah. And he, uh, wrote one, um. I can't even remember the name now. It's something to do with walking with Jesus or every day with Jesus or something like that. Um, and it talks about, you know, including God, God wants to be included in every part of your day. So when you wake up in the morning, morning, God, when you go to choose what clothes you wanna wear, just include God. Oh, well go, what should I wear today? Just literally try and have that ongoing, it's that relationship, isn't it? It's, and not just, and there are, Matt: there are definitely people in church that I think need to pray that Prayer, God, what should I wear today? Because he would not want me to wear that. I'm just, I'm being a bit catty. Sorry about that. But say, [00:51:00] that was just what was in my head. Sorry man. When you, when you, when you were talking there. Mim: I know, I know. That sounds very silly. Doesn't, and that is probably quite a silly an like yeah, a silly answer that made you laugh. No, no, I think Matt: it's important. I think what you're saying is right, that draw got into that. See, for me, I have to be honest with you, I don't do the worship music in the car that often. Um, I like to listen to podcasts and teaching in the cast, just the way my brain works, right? Yeah. And this is, I think this is part of the thing. You've gotta find what works for you. I like to journal. So the first thing, one of the things I do in the morning is I get up with my computer just 'cause this, this is the way that I'm wired and I like to journal, right? And just all of that. For me, worshiping God in journaling is really, and praying and doing all that sort of stuff whilst I'm writing stuff down works so well for me. Um, but for you it's, it's taken those times in the car to, to sing and to, to listen to, to worship music. Can I ask you a really practical question? Yes. [00:52:00] What is some good worship music to listen to in the car at the moment? What's, what's, what's hip and trendy? 'cause you know, you're a worship leader and you know all the worship songs that have ever been written, right? Mim: Uh, no, but, uh, we were talking about this before, weren't we? Yes. Matt, in alphabetical order and Yes. By artist and album. No. Um, I love Maverick City. I think that they are a group who do, um, spontaneous worship very well. Mm-hmm. Corporate worship, um, Bethel music, obviously great artists out of Bethel music. I love, um, Brandon Lake, uh, say and also influence music. Oh my gosh. Influence music. Yeah. On that. Yeah. Love it. Anything that's really kind of soulful. Matt: Okay. I have to be honest with you, Mim: in, in spirit and truth, I think. I think if I can see somebody going, ah, ah, ah, yes, [00:53:00] God. I'm like, yeah, I'm with you. Matt: Let's do it. Go take the hill. That's, that's where you want. I've not actually heard of Maverick. Uh, did you say Maverick? Maverick Music? Mim: Maverick City. Yeah. Matt: Maverick City. Sorry. Mm-hmm. When you say Maverick, I'm thinking Top Gun. Showing my age. Um, but yeah. Maverick City. I'll go check those out. Mm-hmm. And uh, Bethel Music. What was the other one you mentioned? Mim: Influence music. Matt: Influence music. I'll go check that out. Uh, Tracy Twist says the Great I am by Elam Sound. Mim: Yeah. Matt: Have you, do you know what that, do you know that one? Mim: Yeah. Had that song at my wedding actually. Matt: Ah, Mim: yeah. Great song Matt: to the hotty is Andy. Mim: Yeah. Matt: Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. So I think we'll end our Conversation Street there. Uh, thank you Mim, uh, for your, I'm just looking down the questions here. What is biblical worship? We've talked about, um. Here's a [00:54:00] question actually, uh, and then we'll end it. Does the type of music matter, do you think? Mim: No, absolutely not. I mean, uh, in the Old Testament, they go on about hopps and crashing symbols and liars and flutes and yeah, I think God is a God of all and any music, any instruments, any voice, he doesn't care. As long as you bring it to him. That's the important thing. He loves it. Matt: That will end it right there. That's a good place to end it. And it's good for me because if he was after Tuneful voices, I would not be able to sing. I'm just pointing that out. I would not be able to, I just, I just, no, no, no. Can't carry a tune in a bucket, as they say. But that's okay. So what does the Bible say about worship? That was a fantastic conversation. Uh, me. Anything you want to add before we move on to the next bit? Mim: No, just thank you very much for having us. It's been great. Great to speak to you. Uh, [00:55:00] Matt: it's been great having you. So, uh, before you go tell the good folks what's coming up next week though, Mim: coming because you wrote it down Matt: right? You wrote it down so we Mim: don't it down. Coming up next week is Sue and Chris Holcomb speaking about what does the Bible say about health? And I can't wait. I'm gonna tune in. Matt: Yeah, yeah. Come tune in as we talk about health, uh, what it means to be a healthy Christian. And yes, we are gonna talk about physical health. We're gonna talk about body health. We're gonna get into the whole nine yards next week with, uh, Chris and with Sue and myself. So do come join us for that. Make sure you like and subscribe. Reach out to us on the website at Crowd Church if you like to mim. Every time someone comes on for the first time. I'm surprised Matt Crew not reminded me in the comments actually. Uh, we ask those ho hosting for the first time to point to the WhatsApp number on the screen. So if you could point to that while I tell the good folks why it's there.[00:56:00] Mim: Oh my gosh. Is that why you do this? Just to make it feel outta us. Matt: Yeah, totally. We've all been there. It's like an initiation and just so everybody could see your red nails. That was the other reason. Yeah. Yeah, those singly red. I don't, you know. Um, so yeah, uh, if you wanna get in touch with us via the WhatsApp number, you can do, if there's any Prayer requests you wanna send through, please do so. Any questions that you've got, you can reach out to us on that or via the website. Crowd Church, which you can see there. Uh, uh, there we go, Matt. Crew put in the comments points to the number. Little bit late, Matt. Little bit late. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. So thank you so much for joining us. The way we are gonna close out the live stream. We're gonna play one more worship track called Zion. Um, and this very similar set to the last song we had talks about the elders. Uh, but it talks about, uh, worshiping God in heaven in this heavenly Jerusalem, the city of God, the throne room of God. It is a beautiful track. [00:57:00] Do join along with it. Uh, but that is all from myself and mem. Thank you so much for joining us. Uh, we will see you next. Week and I'm looking forward to it. So bye from me. Video: Hi everybody. Matt: Alright, bless you guys. Have a good week. Bye for now.